Polymoog Resonator (Polymoogerfooger)

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:25 pm

I doubt I could "run off" Ken. ;-)

Fwiw, I personally am not a big fan of the PM resonator by itself.
However, mixed against the VCF, it's out of phase and creates some really nice cancellation type filter responses.
So while the resonator itself isn't voltage controlled and limited as a stand-alone box (for my purposes anyways), using it against a standard LPF can create some really nice Oberheimy notch type sounds.

By itself, it can help in the synthesis of resonant body instruments and special effects (adding big-time bass or sizzling high freqs), but when used in conjunction with an active voltage controlled filter, it can do a lot more in my opinion.

As noted, Wakeman made many suggestions to Moog which were incorporated in later PM's. I once owned a new PM and it was a "post Wakeman" version.
I've since worked on several earlier versions and appreciate the changes that were made. Definite improvements in many places.
Even a bit easier to service.

I've stopped working on PM's completely now though.
Too heavy for me to lift with back problems.
But I have lots of spare parts left over including several NOS boards that contain the resonator section, VCF, etc.
I even have a Polymoog Keyboard model in a flight case here that I don't know if the owner wants back. It's in need of help, but I'm not going to be the one working on it.
It's the 14 preset model, not the model with the resonator section.
So I'll ask the owner if I should give it back, sell it or whatever.
It would be nice to get it out of here one way or another.
Perhaps another coffee table to be? :)

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:55 pm

For those into DIY or just curious, here's a pic I mashed up of the schematic showing what's inside one of these things.
No power supply or photo of the slide pots, switch, etc shown.

http://www.minimoog.net/polymoogresonator.jpg

It's not a very big circuit, but complicated to wire up if DIY'ing one from scratch.
Shielded wire should be used to the sliders.
+/- 15 vdc power.

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Voltor07
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Post by Voltor07 » Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:12 pm

Certainly looks complex to create one from scratch. However, a pre-existing board and panel would be simple enough to rig up in an enclosure. A standard 15v wall wart would suffice for power, as well. Even if one was to rig one up starting with components and blank board, it would cost around $60 in parts. The sliders would be the most expensive parts, and it would take a long time for someone unfamiliar with the circuitry to hook up, but certainly doable. The question is, is it worth $550 even after labor? I wouldn't think so. As a one of a kind unit, though, it might be.

If another unit were to suddenly appear out of nowhere, the value would be drastically reduced. :wink:
Minitaur, CP-251, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Pyramid stereo power amp, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ, dot com modular.

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:01 am

You don't necessarily need sliders.
Round pots are easier to obtain and mount.
I have several original boards... got a saw?

A few resistor changes and you can get these things to self-oscillate too.
Not necessarily pretty sounding, but possible. :)
Add an inverting opamp and switch to each stage and there's even more possibilities and tonal responses.

1458's aren't the end-all to be said of opamps either.
There are quieter ones out there.
Many places for improvements or modification.

Polyfusion made a similar module- their Variable Formant Filter.
I've sold several unpopulated NOS Polyfusion boards for these on Ebay.
Long boards though- not good for everyone's DIY project.
The PM ones are much smaller.
Moog's used resistor arrays too: small, accurate and low noise.

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Voltor07
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Post by Voltor07 » Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:27 am

Kevin Lightner wrote:You don't necessarily need sliders.
Round pots are easier to obtain and mount.
I have several original boards... got a saw?

A few resistor changes and you can get these things to self-oscillate too.
Not necessarily pretty sounding, but possible. :)
Add an inverting opamp and switch to each stage and there's even more possibilities and tonal responses.

1458's aren't the end-all to be said of opamps either.
There are quieter ones out there.
Many places for improvements or modification.

Polyfusion made a similar module- their Variable Formant Filter.
I've sold several unpopulated NOS Polyfusion boards for these on Ebay.
Long boards though- not good for everyone's DIY project.
The PM ones are much smaller.
Moog's used resistor arrays too: small, accurate and low noise.
Thank you as always, Kevin, for wonderful technical information! Yes, I have a saw...several in fact. Would a Dremmel tool work? That's my personal favorite saw to use for delicate work. Round pots are indeed plentiful here in my lab/workshop. What values are needed? I have many 50 and 100k pots. A standard 3 position switch could be used for switching the filter types, I take it? If so, I have a few of those. If not, I can get the necessary switches pretty easily and affordably from the local electronics store. Shoot, I could even get a blank panel and make my own module! I also have some rotary switches that could possibly work. Thanks again, Kevin! :D
Minitaur, CP-251, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Pyramid stereo power amp, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ, dot com modular.

jhaible
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4th mode

Post by jhaible » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:21 am

The fourth mode on that board looks interesting, too. It's an "out-of-phase" bandpass mode that creates deep notches between the peaks. Was this used in any Polymoog revision? I only see a 3-position switch on Polymoogs ...

JH. (working on a clone)

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:09 am

JH, for whatever reason, Moog appeared to consider that additional filter response, but didn't implement it.
Perhaps it's because of the wide range of cancellation possibilities when using the main PM mixer. The direct signal is available there and used to good effect when mixed against the VCF too.
Ideally, one could wire up a 4 bit counter to exhaust all the possibilities of the 4016, but some modes wouldn't be desired much.
Some input and output buffering and/or a better quad switch might be good too.

Fwiw, I counted and have 3 of the original boards (with this resonant filter) in stock and am planning a mass "last of all Polymoog parts here" type sale very soon on Ebay.
Even a box filled with the small Moog ribbon controllers and an NOS "Vox Humana" board found only in the Polymoog Keyboard model.
What isn't sold will go to an electronics recycler for crushing.

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Post by jhaible » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:56 pm

Kevin, from the huge resonance I already got for my (blank) PCBs, I'm sure your 3 populated boards will all be sold in no time, without any left for the dumpster!

JH.

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Kevin, from the huge resonance I already got for my (blank) PCBs, I'm sure your 3 populated boards will all be sold in no time, without any left for the dumpster!
...or the other way around- after making your boards available, there may not be much demand for my originals.

jhaible
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Post by jhaible » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:42 am

Kevin Lightner wrote:
Kevin, from the huge resonance I already got for my (blank) PCBs, I'm sure your 3 populated boards will all be sold in no time, without any left for the dumpster!
...or the other way around- after making your boards available, there may not be much demand for my originals.
Well, mine won't fit into an original Polymoog as spare parts!

JH.

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:32 am

Well, mine won't fit into an original Polymoog as spare parts!
True, but then why would demand for my boards increase?
from the huge resonance I already got for my (blank) PCBs, I'm sure your 3 populated boards will all be sold in no time
So you are saying that the Polymoogs of the world will suddenly require spare parts because of the "huge resonance" towards a DIY board you offer the day after I posted the schematic?

You are a funny person, JH.
Very bright one day, blatantly disingenuous the next.

If you can't translate "blatant" or "disingenuous" easily to German, please ask Dieter Doepfer.
He will be able to translate this from English to German for you.
Perhaps he already has? ;-)

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Post by jhaible » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:39 am

Kevin Lightner wrote:
Well, mine won't fit into an original Polymoog as spare parts!
True, but then why would demand for my boards increase?
Just a guess, because I've been asked about populated PCBs.
Just trying to be nice. And have a nice day, too, Kevin!
(your schemos stop where the summing node of the next opamp is, btw.)

JH.

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:31 am

Just trying to be nice. And have a nice day, too, Kevin!
Did I mention disingenuous? ;-)
(your schemos stop where the summing node of the next opamp is, btw.)
LOL! You never miss an opportunity to point out my errors, but find it very difficult to ever offer honest thanks?

Well thank you for the kindness, JH.
You are certainly my biggest fan and well-wisher.

jhaible
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Post by jhaible » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:51 am

Guys, I didn't come here to get involved into yet another fight with KL.
I posted here because Ken's demo has inspired me to make a PCB for this resonator, and yes, to let you know about this PCB project. I have no intention to take away any of Kevin's business, and I don't think I do.
I didn't mean to belittle Kevin's excerpt of the schemos either - just wanted to point ot that this partial schemo would hardly be enough to make a clone of the device, as he seemed to insinuate. No need for name-calling etc.

Peace?

JH.

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Post by jhaible » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:57 am

Kevin Lightner wrote: You are certainly my biggest fan and well-wisher.
I'm not and I don't pretent to. Just let's get along like civilized people, ok?

JH.

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