Timber used in the Moog guitar....

[Alien8]

So what did you give up today for the good of humanity???

I should have typed my prediction as to your response to this.

A wise person would have stated something in their defense, rather than distracting from their own demise.

I could tell you about what I do daily for the "greater good" but you would probably just use your tactile logic, and claim that I don't have proof, and that you could say you do this and that too. It wouldn't solve anything. At the end of the day you will continue being you, and remain unaffected by what I have said. PM me if you really want the list as it does not pertain to this thread.



What bothers me is that MOOG has not responded to the initial question yet, not even by deleting this flaming debate.
[/quote]

[ColorForm2113]

What bothers me is that MOOG has not responded to the initial question yet, not even by deleting this flaming debate.

theyre probably amused by how heated this thread has gotten lol

[Ghost]

Maybe Moog will reply at some point, i did try contacting Zion directly as Nick Montoya suggested earlier in the thread but they have not responded.

What i think would be a good idea is for Moog to offer the electronics as a seperate package, so that people can have them installed to any guitar they wish. That way if you don't like the look (or price) of these existing guitars, or like me if you don't like the wood choices, you can simply use the system as you see fit.

Edit: Moog have now updated the page and the guitar comes with a Swamp Ash body with Mahogany as an option. Maybe they will add other options for the fingerboard too.

[Amos]

Hi guys

I really don't know how the wood is sourced, but I think it's a good and valid question. The best person to ask is certainly Dale at Zion Guitars... but I'll bring it up here at Moog as well. I suspect if it turns out we've been supporting vicious wood pirates from Zanzibar, we'll want to make some changes to our supply chain. Thanks for bringing this up.

Meanwhile, keep it civil in here and respect your fellow forumites (no matter how wrong they may be ).

Cheers,

Amos

[Ghost]

Good stuff, thanks for looking into it Amos.

[c7sus]

So what did you give up today for the good of humanity???

I should have typed my prediction as to your response to this.

A wise person would have stated something in their defense, rather than distracting from their own demise.

I could tell you about what I do daily for the "greater good" but you would probably just use your tactile logic, and claim that I don't have proof, and that you could say you do this and that too. It wouldn't solve anything. At the end of the day you will continue being you, and remain unaffected by what I have said. PM me if you really want the list as it does not pertain to this thread.



What bothers me is that MOOG has not responded to the initial question yet, not even by deleting this flaming debate.

[/quote]

I don't recall casting myself as a saint.

And common sense needs no defense.

I suppose my original post was a bit extreme for this BBS. Netiquette and all......

I also suppose you might have brought up blood diamonds or cocaine for the Contras.

Oops, that last one was our bad.

But those would make outstanding examples for a fascinating argument to the contrary of my short, sarcastic op/ed piece.

But you went for the oxygen comment instead. Flame tu, Brute' or simple trolling...... an irresistible mix of both!

Do you worry about oil money going into terrorist's hands when you fill up your car???

That's a legitimate possibility.

And who are the real terrorists anyways???

Shhhhhhsh! That's an entire other wing of the web!



Moog isn't in the business of selling day-to-day living essentials. Everybody is well aware of that. I don't know what income level you're living at, but this stuff is pure luxury as far as about 99.999% of the world population is concerned. When you're living on less than $2US/day, this space we are sharing isn't even a moment's passing daydream.

Does it make you feel better knowing your luxury item makes some fraction less of a footprint???

Seriously???

I'll bet a month's wages that NOBODY here ever had such a thought whilst contemplating a Voyager.

Except for maybe Ghost.

I don't recall anybody asking if the mahagony for the Voyagers is legit. Or if the American hardwoods used in the other Voyagers was replaced or wasn't removed from a mountain before being strip mined. Or clearcut for a clandestine pot op to finance "homegrown terror".

So get off it. Accept that you are living off the gravy of the universe during this lifetime. Sure, give something back as often as you can. But understand if you're looking at this post you are blessed beyond most peoples' wildest imagination.

And if really caring about the sourcing of the wood for the Moog Guitar is somebody's way of giving back then I guess more power to them. Between you, me, and the fencepost, it's probably gonna take a lot more than that to straighten out my karma.

But that's okay. I give it back when I have it to spare, and lot's of times when I don't.

[Ghost]

My post was not about reducing your footprint per se, you still use the same amount of timber whatever tree you choose to use (unless you want to make 1/2 scale guitars or something lol). The point is the choice of wood, when there are many viable alternatives why seek out timber from threatened species? Even if you absolutely have to use exotic species, buy farm grown timber.

I really don't understand what's so radical about that position.

If you don't care about where your stuff comes from that's fine, but then why try to discourage other people from looking for sustainable methods?

Why are you so negative about it? You imply that because we live in prosperous societies we should all hush up and use what we can get, as if somehow you immediately become a spoiled brat the moment you question your own impact on others and the environment. For me it is exactly because i live in a prosperous society that i have chosen to be aware of exactly where everything i buy comes from. Our current success after all, has in no small part come about at the expense of others overseas.

The reality is that if you buy or produce products that encourage poor environmental practice or the suffering of people, then you are in part responsible. If you are ok with that, that's fine. But if you would like to make a difference it only takes a small extra effort to try and make sure your money is going somewhere that minimizes any negative effects.

I never suggested that Moog or Zion are the worlds number 1 offenders of using hardwood, in fact i said clearly that they were not. But the point is everything counts. In fact logging for timber is not even the biggest cause of deforestation, by far the biggest culprit is land clearance for grazing livestock. That does not mean that logging is irrelevant.

I don't believe in karma or any religion myself, the reason i care about this stuff is that there are going to be many people that come after me here on earth and i don't see why it should be their responsibilty to pick up the pieces. None of us will likely see the results of our actions within our own lifetimes anyway, that's why most people don't care, it will always be someone elses problem.

Anyway since Amos has responded i am happy that they are at least looking into it, since Zion did not reply to me i can't ask anything else.

[sir_dss]

Regardless of how the wood is sourced...It's still a ugly coffee table guitar!

It reeks of pros and dads...

PLEASE put that that Paul Reed Smith aesthetic to bed already.

[vintageabuser]

All of my statements were fact based, not emotional or personal. The fact is if man chooses to extinct a species or use all of a resource, another one will take it's place. Does that mean that everything will be the same as it was before? No. Does it mean that we could lose something that is potentially vital to us? Yes. But it does not change this fact. This is common sense. One also has to remember that change is inevitable and nothing will ever last forever.

This was good for a laugh thanks; the bold part is absolutely false as is the underlined. It's not common sense... it's called ecology it's a branch (zing!) of this thing we call science.

And common sense needs no defense.

Sometimes I think common sense is more endangered than fancy wood and needs people defending it much worse than trees do.

[Theremint]

I was just asked by the Guitar shop which wood do I want for my Vo guitar.

Can anyone tell me what I gain or lose by choosing either swamp ash or mahogany?

Theremint

[Bryan T]

I was just asked by the Guitar shop which wood do I want for my Vo guitar.

Can anyone tell me what I gain or lose by choosing either swamp ash or mahogany?

Theremint

First off, I do think it is the responsibility of your dealer to help you figure this out. They are making a serious chunk of change on your order.

Having said that, here is Warmoth's description of various tone woods: http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/options/o ... ywoods.cfm

I'm a long-time telecaster player, so I prefer ash. Plenty of great guitars have been made with a plethora of tone woods.

Bryan

[Theremint]

Thanks Bryan, That was a great link. My dealer said he likes Mahogany because it sustains well. However that is a mute point here because the electronics on this guitar don't need help from the wood to sustain, right?

Theremint

Any other opinions out there?

[Voltor07]

Thanks Bryan, That was a great link. My dealer said he likes Mahogany because it sustains well. However that is a mute point here because the electronics on this guitar don't need help from the wood to sustain, right?

Theremint

Any other opinions out there?

Mahogany is a lot heavier than swamp ash, so if weight is a factor, go with the ash. Just my thought.

[Bryan T]

Mahogany is a lot heavier than swamp ash, so if weight is a factor, go with the ash. Just my thought.

Probably stating the obvious, but it does depend on the actual piece of wood. Swamp ash can be heavy and mahogany can be light.

On a guitar this expensive, you should be able to spec whatever weight and look you want for the wood.

Bryan

[Gamaliel]

I heard from Sweetwater today that only the mahogany Vo's will be shipped for this run,eta before the end of the month.