Keyboard amps...

Jauntimus Prime · Post by **Jauntimus Prime** » Sun May 11, 2008 10:09 pm

So I was reading that 15-page-long thread about everybody's rigs and trying to see some concensus on keyboard amps. I sold the Fender half-stack I was playing through in favor of something more flexible, with multiple ins and stereo. Something that a Pianet, Opus 3 and two monosynths will all plug into.

I noticed a couple of you are playing through the Barbetta Sona... they seem really great, but I've read extremely mixed reviews and can't find one to actually play. Some folks are in love with them, some folks curse the day they saw one for the first time.

A Roland KC would be an easy choice if not for the fact that it lacks an effects loop.

What do you think of the Barbetta? Should I consider it if I can get a good deal on one? Any other suggestions?

Thanks for any insight!

Christopher J. Boylan · Post by **Christopher J. Boylan** » Tue May 13, 2008 12:32 pm

I use a set of Alesis Sumo 300s. The frequency range is REALLY nice - your synths will sound great. I suggest stereo, as mostly ALL keyboards now a days are stereo and the difference is HUGE. There's a stereo link that makes this easy to wire. Going stereo is double the wiring, but worth it, I promise.

The effects are pretty good, but you can only use one at a time and on all channels at once. Seperat level controls, but the same effect. I don't mind, because I like to employ a nice reverb on all my keyboards. This allows me to do so without the use of another piece of equipment or programming each keyboard.

Now, these amps work great as a monitor system, and so I place them accordingly. I don't suggest that you try to use them as your main sound source for the audience, unless you'll be playing in a very small room. The only thing I'm a bit disappointed in with these amps is that they really could use more power. But as I said, as a personal monitor they work great. Stage amp powered systems should be avoided at all costs in my opinion anyway. When you can hear each musician in your band equally, well, the difference in your own playing is staggering. Low stage power into some sort of main system powering everything for the audience should be employed at most gigs. The difference to ALL that wish to hear you is tremendous.

Alesis - you MUST bump up the power in these amps!!!! Otherwise you can't beat them for the price.[/img]

Kevin Lightner · Post by **Kevin Lightner** » Tue May 13, 2008 1:14 pm

Alesis - you MUST bump up the power in these amps!!!!

http://alesis.com/sumo300
Sumo 300: Output(RMS) Mono @ 1% THD 305 watts at 8ohm

X 2: 600 watts

600 watts is too quiet for you?

Christopher J. Boylan · Post by **Christopher J. Boylan** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:25 pm

I know, I know. Sounds greedy, doesn't it? But for some reason, when playing with an average band, they just don't seem to be a true 300 watts. I don't understand anything about ohms and all the techie numbers, but I do have enough experience with systems that I've gone through in the past and these just don't seem to be a true 300 watts.

Placement is everything. I did find that these babies need some kicking room. When I have the opportunity to back them off and give them enough air space between me and them, there's a big improvement. Raising them always helps with any amps of this size, of course.

Of course, the other answer is that I'm a 51 year old rock 'n roller that's been beating the bleep out of his ears for the past 35 years and I'm going deaf.

CB

Don · Post by **Don** » Tue May 13, 2008 5:17 pm

Well, a couple of things.

First the rating of 600 watts is meaningless. What is more valuable is the efficiency, usually shown as decibels at 1 watt at 1 meter. An efficient amp/speaker combination at 100 watts could blow away an inefficient amp/speaker combo with 1,000 watts. And of course, this assumes a legitimate amplifier rating. I've seen some ratings which should be 50 watts claiming to be 300 watts or more.

Therefore, based on the quality rating given to this combo by Christopher, I looked up the Sumo 300. For the price, it sounded like it could be phenomenal. But curiously, the specs gave little information, including nothing about the efficiency. Hmmm. A review claimed that this was a very cheaply made item (that would explain the low price) and reminded me of that first Alesis mixer and other items. Finally, one review claimed that it sounded more like 75 watts rather than 300, a sign of very poor efficiency or less than honesty in the wattage ratings.

However, all of this may be moot. At least one site claims it is no longer being made, although it is being sold by Alesis.

Jauntimus, it's very difficult to answer your question for a variety of reasons:
1) How much are you willing to spend?
2) What size gear are you willing to lug around?
3) You have four synths. You do realize that you're going to need four inputs, and if you get anything else, it's likely that you'll have stereo outputs from the synths, so you may need even more inputs.
4) How do you like your synths to sound? Do you like rich, full bass? Do you prefer solid mids? How about cutting highs?

I agree with Christopher that a stereo rig is ideal for a couple of reasons. First, it will allow you to fully tap into stereo synths. Second, if you put a VERY slight stereo chorus and/or delay on your mono synths, it will give them more life and fullness.

For me, I like rich basses and mellow highs that, on occasion, can cut. That means a high-quality stereo PA system. If possible, I would suggest a 2.1 system, with a subwoofer to pump the bass and allow the woofers on the satellites to be smaller and distort less.

Kevin Lightner · Post by **Kevin Lightner** » Tue May 13, 2008 8:16 pm

I agree with Don.
There are some very inefficient speakers out there.

I used to have a stereo biamped system for my keyboards.
Two BGW stereo amps, active crossover with 15" JBL speakers and separate horns.
Total power was only about 350w, but could inflict some serious (and clean!) damage.
My current speakers are two 15" Carvin cabs with built-in horns and passive crossover fed by a 200w x2 Carver amp.
Loud, but not nearly as clean and punchy as the old system and this one has 50 watts MORE.

Jauntimus Prime · Post by **Jauntimus Prime** » Tue May 13, 2008 11:37 pm

So I looked into the Sumo 300, and it seems to be incredible! And cheap. (You can even still get one refurb from the factory for about $250... I wonder if that should make me nervous.) It seems to fit the bill for most of my requirements...

...for Don, who asked what those requirements were:

1.) I can't spend more than $500. I'm relying on newer second-hand, refurbished, or my friend's Guitar Center discount, most likely.

2.) The smaller and lighter and/or more portable the better. The Barbetta turned me on because of the huge power-weight ratio (it weighs only 44 lbs). The Sumo, while heavier, has casters and a built-in dolly. THAT is awesome.

3.) Of course! Input capacity has been a main point of consideration. Relatively few amps have as many inputs as I need, and I've also considered a mixer-to-amp or powered monitor combination for that reason. So far, The Roland KC350/550, Barbetta Sona 41, and Sumo 300 are the only standalone amps I've found that supply 4 channels, stereo or otherwise. I often include percussion in my live rig also, so at least one XLR input is nice too.

4.) I guess I'd have to say I agree... for electric piano I like mids that can really bark in the upper range when driven but are more mellow in the low range. For synths, I like warm basses that can still level walls in a pinch, and balanced highs that cut evenly, say, for filter sweeps and stuff. And a touch of reverb on everything -- especially the strings of the Opus, which are just sublime.

That's my primary reason for an effects loop. Roland doesn't have one. Barbetta does. Alesis doesn't, BUT has onboard effects. With a mixer, it's aux send/return. The stereo capability is awfully tasty too...

Btw, this is TOTALLY off topic... but Christopher, are you related to a Clint Boylan?

MarkM · Post by **MarkM** » Thu May 15, 2008 1:43 am

I have a pair of Barbettas and love them. Very lightweight and sound decent. I've never had any trouble with them.

Christopher J. Boylan · Post by **Christopher J. Boylan** » Thu May 15, 2008 1:05 pm

Jauntimus Prime wrote:
Btw, this is TOTALLY off topic... but Christopher, are you related to a Clint Boylan?

No Jauntimus, I don't believe I've ever heard that name in my family line.

I guess what it all comes down to is, bring in your most intense keyoard, plug it it and try out a variety of things and buy what sounds best to you. If you really like the sound of the more expensive unit, try to hold on to what you're using for a bit longer to scrape up the extra money for what you REALLY want. Just keep in mind that you don't have to spend a great deal of money to get good sound. Another feature about the Alesis Sumo 300s is that I don't have to worry about seperate amplification all in pieces with all that extra wiring. Just plop 'em down and plug 'em in.