Do drum triggers output a gate signal/ sawtooth, or a more complex higher waveform? I am trying to figure out a way to use triggers from the roland v-drums or other drum triggers to trigger the step patterns in the murf [rather than slamming on the tap pedal for complex beats.]
i might have to feed them into a gate/ rack..
hmm
matt
Murf step and Drum triggers
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matt the fiddler
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Murf step and Drum triggers
Last edited by matt the fiddler on Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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matt the fiddler
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I guess i problem solve faster than other people find intrest reply 
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I am just going to get the cp-251, and a small modular unit from synthesizers.com that covers functions what my 251 and other moogerfoogers don't. [you only need so many noise sources] they have [in their catalogue of classic moog modular interchangables] a device that creates some options on getting control voltage from an input signal. - http://www.synthesizers.com/q118.html I figure 2 of those modules would suit my needs, routing either drum triggers or a full drum mix minus overheads to get some fast gates with the rest of the band for use in time dependent effects. Depending if I am on the more random patterns, it may not matter how many I get [in terms of sometimes getting double triggered], as long as it is enough to sustain the delay-]
Also, after thinking- I am sure with this, a slew generator, the MF-101, and a couple other tweaks and LFOs- I can start to emulate some of what the mutronics mutator offeres for sound possibilities.... though I won't complain if anyone sends me their mutator:)
.I am just going to get the cp-251, and a small modular unit from synthesizers.com that covers functions what my 251 and other moogerfoogers don't. [you only need so many noise sources] they have [in their catalogue of classic moog modular interchangables] a device that creates some options on getting control voltage from an input signal. - http://www.synthesizers.com/q118.html I figure 2 of those modules would suit my needs, routing either drum triggers or a full drum mix minus overheads to get some fast gates with the rest of the band for use in time dependent effects. Depending if I am on the more random patterns, it may not matter how many I get [in terms of sometimes getting double triggered], as long as it is enough to sustain the delay-]
Also, after thinking- I am sure with this, a slew generator, the MF-101, and a couple other tweaks and LFOs- I can start to emulate some of what the mutronics mutator offeres for sound possibilities.... though I won't complain if anyone sends me their mutator:)
hmm if it was fool proof i might but these things are too expensive i'm too scared of totally screwing it up. i plugged the wrong power supply in my murf once and it started making some very strange noises. almost gave me a heart attack.
hmm adding 8 outputs to a murf. you would almost have to put it in a new enclosure
hmm adding 8 outputs to a murf. you would almost have to put it in a new enclosure
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matt the fiddler
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I would rather have 8 inputs than 8 outputs. why not both when we are going all out ? - and link it to a external analogue sequencer or midi to cv control device to trigger each of the ranges.
you could do some of the murf effects with 8 individual band pass filters, an envelope generator, and several lfos or a sequencer... .
heck - i really want an envelope out on it- like the mf-101 has
? - and link it to a external analogue sequencer or midi to cv control device to trigger each of the ranges. you could do some of the murf effects with 8 individual band pass filters, an envelope generator, and several lfos or a sequencer... .
heck - i really want an envelope out on it- like the mf-101 has
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matt the fiddler
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matt the fiddler
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Impossible Sound
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"does anyone even make an analog sequencer that has an in and out for each channel? i don't know if i've ever seen one."
http://www.metalbox.com/modules/seqsw.html
It can be used as a straight sequencer when nothing is plugged into the inputs, or as a sequential switch between audio sources or cv sources.
http://www.blacet.com/
Also makes a 3-stage switch and scanner. Same idea, fewer stages.
As far as the original question, trigger outs from something like v-drums are probably just simple pulses. Really the same thing from a tempo tap pedal. Level and/or polarity might be the only issue, which is easily solved with the mixer on the CP-251.
If you're thinking of going modular anyway, there are several modules out there that can extract a trigger/gate from audio.
http://www.metalbox.com/modules/seqsw.html
It can be used as a straight sequencer when nothing is plugged into the inputs, or as a sequential switch between audio sources or cv sources.
http://www.blacet.com/
Also makes a 3-stage switch and scanner. Same idea, fewer stages.
As far as the original question, trigger outs from something like v-drums are probably just simple pulses. Really the same thing from a tempo tap pedal. Level and/or polarity might be the only issue, which is easily solved with the mixer on the CP-251.
If you're thinking of going modular anyway, there are several modules out there that can extract a trigger/gate from audio.
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matt the fiddler
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I was on the border line for going modular anyways... So I took the plunge I was originally looking for a non modular solution..
anyways- the roland vdrums is a piezo transducer- each trigger sends a feed to the computer that sounds like a small tom [you can amp them directly]- the computer gates it, and adds preset sounds and volumes to that... maybe there is one with gate outs..
BTW> laughed at the Blacet improbability drive cute reference http://www.blacet.com/ID.html
I was originally looking for a non modular solution.. anyways- the roland vdrums is a piezo transducer- each trigger sends a feed to the computer that sounds like a small tom [you can amp them directly]- the computer gates it, and adds preset sounds and volumes to that... maybe there is one with gate outs..
BTW> laughed at the Blacet improbability drive
cute reference http://www.blacet.com/ID.html-
matt the fiddler
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- Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:07 pm
Some more research
In the Beginning,
Dr. Bob Moog's modular systems used a signal called "Trigger" to identify when a key on the keyboard was pressed and released. Of course, this signal could also be generated by other sources such as sequencers, foot pedals, drum controllers, etc. Triggers are used to start envelope generators, sequencers, etc, and are a critical function in any synthesizer system. Moog systems use 2 types of Triggers: Voltage Triggers (AKA V-Trig) and Switch Triggers (AKA S-Trig, sometimes called Shorting Trigger).
Voltage Triggers
V-Trig signals are patched using normal 1/4" plugs and jacks, and are approximately 3 volts when ON and 0 volts (Ground) when off. V-Trigs in a Moog modular are created by the 960 Sequential Controller (90% duty cycle) and by the 961 interface that can convert S-Trigs to V-Trigs. V-Trigs are the same as what we call a 'Gate' today. Gate signals allows for easier, more intutive patching and eliminate conversion.
Switch Triggers
S-Trig signals use a special 2-pin blade-type connector made by Cinch/Jones. Basically, an S-Trig is simply the signal being shorted to ground. This can be accomplished by a circuit, or by a passive (no power required) device such as a mechanical foot switch or push button. Moog keyboards produce S-Trigs and Moog 911 Envelope Generators use them to control their cycle. The one advantage to S-Trigs is that many source signals can be connected in parallel to create a logical OR (any signal makes it through). The disadvantage is that the S-Trig must go through a conversion module to interface to modules requiring a V-Trig (Gate).
Today,
Virtually all synthesizers use 'Gates' which are essentially V-Trigs. Usually Gate voltages are +5 volts or more. Usually they have a positive polarity, but not always, and some synthesizers have a switch to select polarity.
http://www.synthesizers.com/gates.html
That said- i bet the moogerfoogers use switch triggers, but voltage will work for them..
In the Beginning,
Dr. Bob Moog's modular systems used a signal called "Trigger" to identify when a key on the keyboard was pressed and released. Of course, this signal could also be generated by other sources such as sequencers, foot pedals, drum controllers, etc. Triggers are used to start envelope generators, sequencers, etc, and are a critical function in any synthesizer system. Moog systems use 2 types of Triggers: Voltage Triggers (AKA V-Trig) and Switch Triggers (AKA S-Trig, sometimes called Shorting Trigger).
Voltage Triggers
V-Trig signals are patched using normal 1/4" plugs and jacks, and are approximately 3 volts when ON and 0 volts (Ground) when off. V-Trigs in a Moog modular are created by the 960 Sequential Controller (90% duty cycle) and by the 961 interface that can convert S-Trigs to V-Trigs. V-Trigs are the same as what we call a 'Gate' today. Gate signals allows for easier, more intutive patching and eliminate conversion.
Switch Triggers
S-Trig signals use a special 2-pin blade-type connector made by Cinch/Jones. Basically, an S-Trig is simply the signal being shorted to ground. This can be accomplished by a circuit, or by a passive (no power required) device such as a mechanical foot switch or push button. Moog keyboards produce S-Trigs and Moog 911 Envelope Generators use them to control their cycle. The one advantage to S-Trigs is that many source signals can be connected in parallel to create a logical OR (any signal makes it through). The disadvantage is that the S-Trig must go through a conversion module to interface to modules requiring a V-Trig (Gate).
Today,
Virtually all synthesizers use 'Gates' which are essentially V-Trigs. Usually Gate voltages are +5 volts or more. Usually they have a positive polarity, but not always, and some synthesizers have a switch to select polarity.
http://www.synthesizers.com/gates.html
That said- i bet the moogerfoogers use switch triggers, but voltage will work for them..
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eric coleridge
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- Location: NYC
S-trigs and V-trigs
Just thought I'd add to this topic some of what I've found from using various equipment, including some Moogers:
The Moogers, use a kind of V-trig, or gate. I know that the MF101 ENV out sends a V-trig, not an S-trig. It's enough of a signal to trigger some of my synths with gate input, but not all. I'm pretty sure the MURF also uses some form of volatge gate input and NOT switch trigger.
I'm not sure why the new Moog Music decided to stop using s-trig on their products, but I would guess it made more sense in the late 90s (as there would be virtually no s-trig compatibility with any other newer products). For that matter, s-trig never was particularly compatible with much of any other non-Moog products and it's always been a topic of wonder why Moog decided to continue incorporating s-trigs on their post-modular products. Besides Moogs, I know of only some early Korgs that use s-trig.
There is a simple circuit, which is actually in the MIcroMoog manual (and reprinted on some websites) for converting V-trig to S-trig and Synthesizers.com sells this prefabricated circuit inside of a 1/4" to cinch-jones cable. Switch triggers don't have to be Cinch-Jones connectors either. There are 1/4 S-trigs on many 80s Moogs and 70s Korgs.
As far as drum triggers are concerned, I've found that there can be all sorts of different triggers used on various products, but they are most typically audio triggers. I have an older Roland product, the Octapad and an accompaning Kick drum trigger and they are not compatible with S-trig or V-trig. However, as someone said, these audio triggers if processed could probably function as either an S-trig or a V-trig (depending on the polarity of the signal). My Roland kick pad has a switch on it to change it's polarity, for instance. But even when switched to negative polarity, the signal is too low to work as an S-trig.
But any audio signal, if amplified enough, would probably work as a V-trig, at least. [/i]
The Moogers, use a kind of V-trig, or gate. I know that the MF101 ENV out sends a V-trig, not an S-trig. It's enough of a signal to trigger some of my synths with gate input, but not all. I'm pretty sure the MURF also uses some form of volatge gate input and NOT switch trigger.
I'm not sure why the new Moog Music decided to stop using s-trig on their products, but I would guess it made more sense in the late 90s (as there would be virtually no s-trig compatibility with any other newer products). For that matter, s-trig never was particularly compatible with much of any other non-Moog products and it's always been a topic of wonder why Moog decided to continue incorporating s-trigs on their post-modular products. Besides Moogs, I know of only some early Korgs that use s-trig.
There is a simple circuit, which is actually in the MIcroMoog manual (and reprinted on some websites) for converting V-trig to S-trig and Synthesizers.com sells this prefabricated circuit inside of a 1/4" to cinch-jones cable. Switch triggers don't have to be Cinch-Jones connectors either. There are 1/4 S-trigs on many 80s Moogs and 70s Korgs.
As far as drum triggers are concerned, I've found that there can be all sorts of different triggers used on various products, but they are most typically audio triggers. I have an older Roland product, the Octapad and an accompaning Kick drum trigger and they are not compatible with S-trig or V-trig. However, as someone said, these audio triggers if processed could probably function as either an S-trig or a V-trig (depending on the polarity of the signal). My Roland kick pad has a switch on it to change it's polarity, for instance. But even when switched to negative polarity, the signal is too low to work as an S-trig.
But any audio signal, if amplified enough, would probably work as a V-trig, at least. [/i]
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matt the fiddler
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- Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:07 pm
good input eric..
a question though. with my .com, inorder to use gate triggers- I need to use the 142 pedal interface http://www.synthesizers.com/q142.html
how is it that the moogerfoogers can read a passive pedal for trigger input [tap input on the murf- i just checked] , if it truly needs a v-input trigger? Is there a way that they accept both? or what?
a question though. with my .com, inorder to use gate triggers- I need to use the 142 pedal interface http://www.synthesizers.com/q142.html
how is it that the moogerfoogers can read a passive pedal for trigger input [tap input on the murf- i just checked] , if it truly needs a v-input trigger? Is there a way that they accept both? or what?