Need a comparison between 108 and 103. Audio or words

[MBlom]

I use the phaser a lot! I love the kind of hollow and vowely sounds you get with it and it suits my Voyager-bass really well. But I'm trying to expand the palette (is that even an expression?). I have a Freqbox but that one gets too aggressive for bass in my band, though it kills as a cut-through mid synth, so I'm thinking about a Cluster Flux. Trying to find sound clips and videos of it being used with synths, but the only ones I can find use it as too much of an wacky effect or just tweaks between extreme settings so there's no chance of grasping its "core" sound, if you know what I mean. Or the sounds are just distorted or lame.

Here, at 1.00 and onwards, you can hear my default bass sound with phaser.
http://youtu.be/Fpvi7Jrq8DQ

What could the Cluster Flux bring to this? Besides its chorus I'm curious about how useful it would be having it connected to the drum machine via MIDI and having it change in 16ths like a sequencer. Bought a MuRF a year ago that I thought could make such an effect but I found it to tame. Could the Cluster Flux bring a better sequencer-like effect with bite?

Please enlighten me with words or sounds!

[_DemonDan_]

Cluster Flux with Guitar and Kurzweil synth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CpkKZDWeXQ

[Croyote]

The two pedals couldn't be more different.

The MF-102 is a ring modulator capable of tremolos, volume swells, octave division, quasi-harmonizing, etc.

The MF-108 is a chorus/flanger capable of Through-Zero Flanging, any type of Chorus, Phasing, Vibrato, Oscillation and Feedback. Plus the effects loop means if can be a real chameleon and do things that only the "?" Flanger by Lovetone can replicate. It can be noisy. I've owned 3, and my first one and most current are very noisy, my 2nd was perfect and I sold it in a moment of stupidity.

The MF-103 might bridge the gap between the two as it can get Flange-y and can also do Ring Mod like tones on the highest speed settings. It can also do BiPhasing better than a Mutron (IMO) so save your money from one of these.

[Vsyevolod]

Even though the OP said 102, I believe he means to say 103...

Stephen




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[Croyote]

The Cluster-Flux doesn't have a sequencer, you would need something like a Koma Elektronik or EHX 8 Step.

[MBlom]

Sorry, I meant 103. The MF phaser. Have one and love it! Though as I mentioned, I want to expand my sonic possibilities and since I just bought a Roland JX8P I realise how nice a good chorus can sound. And I've got plans for a DX7 as I absolutely adore those 80s punchy fm-basses and I recently heard a demo of some DX7 presets with and without chorus and My God what a nice sound the chorus lifted it to!

A cheaper way could be getting a rackmounted BOSS or Roland chorus effect unit, at least that's what I've heard. But since I've already have five foogers, why not a 108? Doubt the aforementioned would be as tweakable. And the MIDI would be quite nice.

I know it doesn't have a sequencer, but unlike the 103 it has MIDI. So if I connect it to the drum machine it should be able to change settings every 16th if I program it that way. Kind of a pseudo-sequencing that would be useful to me since I play live with a drummachine and sometimes I'm too busy playing the talbox or vocoder to be able to play 16th note sequence-like basslines.

[MBlom]

Cluster Flux with Guitar and Kurzweil synth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CpkKZDWeXQ

Thanks! That demo really showed the craziness it can sport, and I get a feeling of it being useful as more than just a wacky "space effect". Though it would've been nice to hear it with something else programmed than a demo song. Hard to tell what was 108 and what was programmed. Aside from when it got wacky.

[MBlom]

Still not convinced. Anyone else care to describe in words or audio what you can do with a synth and Cluster Flux?

[wordsdrawnigh]

Well, I love the MF-103 on slower settings, but am not as fond of using it at faster LFO speeds, as it tends to overwhelm the original signal. In contrast, I find the Cluster Flux much more useful throughout it's entire LFO frequency range, as you have more control over the amount of coloration. I especially enjoy using it in combination with an expression pedal controlling the LFO rate; you can get some pretty delicious "rotary speaker" effects that way...

[Gorillafoxi]

Just get'em both. Once you have the one, you'll definitely want the other one too.

They both have their merits. It really just depends on what flavor of time based effect you're looking for. I guess I could describe one "boring" (it's not boring, actually) application. Let's say you're running a single oscillator sound and have the cut off cranked wide open. Meh. Now, let's throw the 108 into the effects loops and adjust the chorus to taste. Now one oscillator has the approximation of the "swirl" that's generally reserved for two. Think Roland Juno (one oscillator, and a chorus to fatten it up) only...you know....not. That can add some serious mood if a bit bleeds through a resonance heavy bass.
One thing I love doing with the 103 is killing the LFO amount, and just using the comb filter manually to sort of morph the tone of an entire patch as well.

Those are a couple of the more "pedestrian" applications, but...parts becoming hold....additional useful building blocks for the end result.

[MBlom]

I find the Cluster Flux much more useful throughout it's entire LFO frequency range, as you have more control over the amount of coloration.

Good to hear! As "just a chorus" I would probably be better off with something else, but what's tempting me is being able to use it as well to add some weirdness to the bass when playing longer notes. And having it synced to the drum machine via MIDI for some sequencer-like effects (as I've mentioned). Dying for having a chance to try that out, but there's no music store in town that has it. Asked a store where I usually buy my gear to bring it in for me to try. Hopefully they'll manage to do that. I'm not sure I'll buy it untested.

Another question:
I've heard complaints about hiss and noise level. I play live and rarely record so I guess I'm not that sensitive to it. But since I'll be using it as an effect for Voyager bass patches, will there be a risk of it being to noisy? And I've heard many that says it really shines with guitar, does that mean it can get dull with bass? That it needs those high frequencies to be worth using.

[stiiiiiiive]

Well, if used with the Voyager, you can patch it in the insert so that the noise is only present when the oscillators are.

As far as trying it, there's a famous german megastore that offers 30 days return policy. You may want to benefit of it

[Vsyevolod]

I'm not getting any noise out of either of my ClusterFluxii. Though I'm not running a guitar through it, just line level signals from my various synths. Dead quiet here.

Stephen




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[Croyote]

I'm not getting any noise out of either of my ClusterFluxii. Though I'm not running a guitar through it, just line level signals from my various synths. Dead quiet here.

Stephen

Put quite simply you got lucky.

BBD chips can have a wide variation of tolerances . . . my suspicion is that Moog didn't add calibration pots,and if you get lucky, then you get lucky.

Either that or I got a dead quiet Customer Service rep who didn't care to answer my calibration request.

[Alien8]

ClusterFlux is awesome on bass. It can be subtle or extreme but mostly it's just thick.

Running stereo is great for adding motion but also some clarity and oomph to the lines. With the amount turned down, and just a touch of feedback it works really well as an EQ that can really hide or emphasize the bass tone. Stereo just sounds so huge, while still maintaining the basic sound you have going in.

What might be most useful is being able to play the time via MIDI notes. Syncing the LFO and tuning it's limits to the time & the note played.

Longer sustained notes can be beat influenced or enhanced by syncing a square / saw / random wave.

Then, further you can play the self oscillation. It's range isn't great, but the sound is unique and usable.

When you get into the delay multiplier tones, the noise becomes a problem, but you can use it for builds, changes, ends etc. The noise only begins to show at the extreme time settings and higher feedback.

Certainly worth trying, different from the phaser and MuRF.