RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

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monsterjazzlicks
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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:33 pm

Hello DD,
DonutDude wrote:Sounds more like 7/4 to 4/4 back and forth, or 11/8 (depending on how you want to write it down)
I am sure you are quite correct in the way that you yourself perceive it, being the excellent musician you are.

I calculate it as being these 5 x BARS recycled:

6/8, 2/8, 6/8, 3/8, 5,8 (with quaver obviously being the beat). But I am sure that many will disagree with me here! Seems to be both the beauty and nature of these forums! lol

The SINGER does a great job vocalising over that! Though the DRUMMER seems a bit lost as to where the place his KICK DRUM at times! :?

Ta,

Paul

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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:36 pm

MrNutty,
MRNUTTY wrote:Just a thought - maybe the sax dynamics come from a breath controller. You can get quite wild modifications of plain ADSR envelopes when you mix a breath controller in.
Yes, the obvious model being the BC-1 used in conjunction with the DX7 and family.

Not sure if there was dedicated a BC designed to work alongside the MOOG(s)?

Paul
Last edited by monsterjazzlicks on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

monsterjazzlicks
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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:53 pm

Hi Piktor,
Piktor wrote:I'm not sure if you are literally trying to get the sound of a saxophone on the Multimoog, or if you are trying to get an expressive sound that is saxophone-like. I am far from an expert, but don't think that the Multi is going to get you a saxophone sound. I don't really think that you have to have that exact sound to have some of the effect.
I had another play on it tonight. Flute, Oboe and Clarinet are not too bad (as on many ANALOGUE and SUBTRACTIVES synths). Maybe the SAX tone might be enhanced if I used the PITCH RIBBON controller, but my PR is too temperamental and unreliable.

I should have been a little more specific to your earlier question. Something in the style of this is what I was trying to achieve:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sul_9BcgOOI

Cheers,

Paul

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MRNUTTY
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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by MRNUTTY » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:30 pm

Just to underscore breath controllers again, the DX7 had a native breath controller for it's best reed imitations. Other Yamaha synths also have specific algorithms for reed imitation for use with breath controllers, EX5 for instance. Not sure how to get it to work with CV synths, but it's wortrh looking into. I have a breath controller hidden away somewhere.
VoyagerEB, Minitaur, LittlePhattyII, 4xSlimPhatty, Sub37, MF[2x101,2x102,103,104M,105,105B,105M,2x107,108M], 3xCP251, XV351, MP201;
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monsterjazzlicks
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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:32 pm

Hi,

Back to the DELAY thing for again for a minute please:

I was trying to experiment with creating DELAY FX by recording a MOOG melody into CUBASE, the DUPLICATING it (the audio) using CTR+V, and HARD PANNING each track either side.

Then to create the DELAY, zooming in (CTR+H) into one of the tracks and moving (offsetting) it (to 0.03ms in this example).

Hence, would this be the correct procedure please?
0.03ms
0.03ms
panning
panning
Also, what I am not sure of, mathematically, is that a MILLISECOND is a THOUSANDTH of a SECOND. So how many ZERO's should there be after decimal point please? In the (above) PNG's/recordings, it is set at 0.03ms, but people say "300ms".

So this is how I think it is:

0.03 is 300ms. I think it is actually 3 x CENTI-seconds. So is it correct in that 0.001ms = 10ms and 0.0001 = (1 ms).

Audio demo recording uploaded to PicoSong:

http://picosong.com/gNeS

Many thanks,

Paul

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Piktor
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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by Piktor » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:09 am

MRNUTTY,

Re: your question regarding production notes on "that tune"

I am going to assume that you are referring to "While You See a Chance" (Winwood). For some reason, I can remember some specific details from select magazine articles that I read decades ago. I was unable to find an online copy of this 1981 article for you;
Doerschuk, Bob. "British Rock's Retiring Renaissance Man Returns", Contemporary Keyboard

However, I have found a some online discussion and one great article about this topic.

1) Confirming that Winwood used a Multimoog:
http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/for ... 18/342798-
12-11-2006, 09:08 PM
Ok, here's the word on this. I am right now looking at the June 1981 issue of Keyboard Mag with Winwood on the cover. The whole article from pp 48-60 is all about Arc Of A Diver. I'll quote a couple of comments here:

Q: "What instruments did you use for the bass?"
A: " I used a Multimoog and I think I used a Minimoog on a couple of the cuts..."

Q: "Did you use a Multimoog for that solo with the hard-edged tone in 'While You See A Chance?'"
A: "Right. I can't remember the wave shape. It was fairly square. But I did use a filter pedal to give it kind of a phased texture..."

Q: "Did you use the CS-80 for many of the violin sounds on Arc?"
A: "Yes, quite a few of them. I used the Prophet as well."

Q: "Do you devise many of the programs on your Prophet?"
A: "No. I used a Prophet on Arc Of A Diver, but it was rented because I was waiting to buy one with perfect temperament...I read somewhere that the new model Prophet-5 can be tuned to unequal temperaments and that intrigued me so much that I hope to be working on things using those kinds of scales...I'm not sure whether I'll get the Prophet-5 or -10 or wait for a new one to come along..."


2) Suggestions about how to get that tone and tips on Winwood's style of manipulating pitch (very important)

http://www.keyboardmag.com/lessons/1251 ... wood/50240
OR
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/newbay/ ... startid=46

Hopefully, this is helpful.

P

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Piktor
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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by Piktor » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:55 am

Paul and MRNUTTY,

Maybe this response will address both of your questions/comments.

Coleman Hawkins - great example of expression
MRNUTTY wrote:Just to underscore breath controllers again, the DX7 had a native breath controller for it's best reed imitations. Other Yamaha synths also have specific algorithms for reed imitation for use with breath controllers, EX5 for instance. Not sure how to get it to work with CV synths, but it's wortrh looking into. I have a breath controller hidden away somewhere.
Based on a 1981 article by Craig Anderton, I made a voltage control pedal out of an old crappy volume pedal. I have used it to control the filter successfully. There are other uses (see below)

However, I have also used a Yamaha BC2 (breath controller), a Yamaha MCS2 (midi control station with a breath controller input) in combination with a Roland MPU 101 (midi in to voltage control out) to apply breath control to the Multimoog. Again, I have used that mostly to open the filter.

Now, there is a way to use the VC pedal or Breath Controller to modulate the filter contour, manipulate pulse width, work the pitch of one or both oscillators, work the pitch of one synced oscillator, etc. while keeping your left hand free for comping on another keyboard or manipulating something else on the Multi. These are capabilities that modern synths have, but there was no documentation that the Multimoog had these capabilities. I kind of stumbled on this discovery. I contacted Thom Rhea, one of the Multimoog's designers to share the "discovery" and ask him why these capabilities had not been made accessible on the front panel in an obvious way. Tom's response: "The Multi was conceived of as a "front end" to a modular system, i.e. as a controller. If you look at what we put on the back, it would do this pretty well! And, it was cheaper to put it as I/O rather than a front panel function."

I have already posted a link to a series of You Tube videos about that information on this forum a couple of years ago. (Paul, I know that you saw them.) Sorry that the audio is just going into the iPad mic. Though the sound is adequate, I hope to better with some future posts.
The how-to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItrpqT5NWLM
The video with my attempt at using VC pedal to work filter expressively (an improvisation): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkQ9f20dQ_A

Not spectacular, but maybe enough to give you some ideas.

P

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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:33 am

Piktor,
Piktor wrote:I have already posted a link to a series of You Tube videos about that information on this forum a couple of years ago. (Paul, I know that you saw them.) Sorry that the audio is just going into the iPad mic. Though the sound is adequate, I hope to better with some future posts. The how-to video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItrpqT5NWLM The video with my attempt at using VC pedal to work filter expressively (an improvisation): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkQ9f20dQ_A
Oh wow yes, was that YOU? I never realized until just now! lol I like all of the (very helpful) CAPTIONS throughout your demonstrations.

If you assign the PEDAL to control PITCH BEND (as you do in the above video), then does this allow you to free up the MOD WHEEL to control something totally different? For instance, use the PEDAL for PITCH BENDING and and MOD WHEEL for FILTER MOD? I am taking the RIBBON CONTROLLER completely out of the equation here (as mine is non-functioning).

Secondly, I know you made your PEDALyouself, but it is not possible to PURCHASE one? Or does such a device not exist? Obviously you can purchase VOLUME control pedals to use with analogue synths such as JUNO 6 and POLY 61 etc, though I would guess that these are less sophisticated than what would be required to perform the desired tasks on the MULTI?

Much appreciated as always,

Paul
Last edited by monsterjazzlicks on Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:43 am

Piktor,
Piktor wrote:Tom's response: "The Multi was conceived of as a "front end" to a modular system, i.e. as a controller. If you look at what we put on the back, it would do this pretty well!
So, does this mean, please, that you could (for instance) come out of a JUNO 6, into the MULTIMOOG (whatever INPUT that might be called?), then out of the MULTI (whatever OUTPUT that might be called?)and into your AMPLIFIER? This would then enable you to manipulate (modulate) the tone of the JUNO using the parameters (dials) on the MULTI?
Piktor wrote:"And, it was cheaper to put it as I/O rather than a front panel function."
Does I/0 mean IN/OUT please?

Cheers,

Paul

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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:55 pm

Hi,
thealien666 wrote:
monsterjazzlicks wrote:Get a Korg M1, someone told me that it has a pretty good one... :twisted:
I was chatting earlier today with another keyboard player about this (SAXOPHONE) scenario (though he was recommending a Technics KN synth):
What I was specifically trying to achieve was to record a jazzy track using the MULTI exclusively. So to not include any other keyboards if possible. I have ROLAND XV5050 module which has a great SOPRANO SAX on it, but of course using this (in the recording) would simply defeat the object as I wanted it to be purely a MULTIMOOG (little) project.

In any case, I don't think I will be able to perform what I had originally planned (something like a STAN GETZ solo) and so I am going to have to find a workaround of sorts. Watch this space! lol
Ta,

Paul
Last edited by monsterjazzlicks on Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by thealien666 » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:01 pm

Paul, the little smiling devil icon at the end of my comment should have let you know that I was being sarcastic... :roll: :wink:
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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:33 pm

Hi Alien,
thealien666 wrote:Paul, the little smiling devil icon at the end of my comment should have let you know that I was being sarcastic... :roll: :wink:
Ok, I see now! lol

I am totally rubbish with text speak, abbreviations and smiley vocabulary (as you have probably already gathered)!

Cheers,

Paul

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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by thealien666 » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:50 pm

monsterjazzlicks wrote:I am totally rubbish with text speak, abbreviations and smiley vocabulary (as you have probably already gathered)!
But I'd say that you're pretty masterful with the bold and size text tools however ! :D
lol !

Cheers,
Image

Alain.
Moog Minimoog D (1975)
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monsterjazzlicks
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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:31 pm

Hi,
thealien666 wrote:
monsterjazzlicks wrote:I am totally rubbish with text speak, abbreviations and smiley vocabulary (as you have probably already gathered)!
But I'd say that you're pretty masterful with the bold and size text tools however !
ha ha, well I kind of do if for myself also so that I can quickly SCAN my threads if I am looking for a particular answer to something (which I have previously asked).

Paul

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Re: RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:50 pm

"Kangaroo Jack" - Dedicated to Paul Need, Wirral, UK (Seaman - 2015).

Another offering utilizing the MULTIMOOG and MXR Carbon Copy Delay pedal.

MXR is set to a medium-short-ish repeat and a dryer, rather than wetter MIX.

CUBASE REVERB (with a long tail)applied to (panned) HI SYNTH perks (which make a brief appearance midway).

Both the INTRO and OUTRO were both recorded as separate takes. And HI SYNTH's were overdubbed. It's pretty obvious for the average ear to detect/deduct!

I used a few BASS GROWLS which I nicked (or rather borrowed!) from watching one of PIKTOR's excellent You Tube videos this afternoon. He calls it something else though?

Could do with a DRUM BEAT to help highlight when/where the beat gets turned-around.

So why not come on down an' acquaint yourself with Mr Jack the funky kangaroo? He sure would like to meet you! :mrgreen:

Available for FREE(!) on PicoSound: http://picosong.com/gBfB

Best,

Paul

(Or, if you prefer, on You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lceOQKB4F8E)
Last edited by monsterjazzlicks on Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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