Adding simple vibrato with MW Sub 37

deanross · Post by **deanross** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:12 pm

Hi guys this question is so simple it's almost embarrassing! I've been a synth player for 20 years so hardly a newbie, but I can't get my head around something so basic on my lovely new Sub 37! Starting from an INIT patch, I'm trying to add a simple triangle wave vibrato (either to PITCH AMT or FILTER AMT, doesn't matter) via the Mod Wheel, but I can't seem to get the MW, when it's pulled down to its MINimum position, to stop/switch off the vibrato completely. I watched Dan's tweaking video on youtube and followed what he's doing exactly in the first couple of minutes, including matching all the settings on the synth. He moves the MOD wheel up and down and it shuts off the vib at the Min position like it's supposed to but I can't get that to happen! There's always vibrato, it won't stop completely. Any ideas?

Many thx!

deanross · Post by **deanross** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:30 pm

Forgot to add, when the Mod Wheel Control setting under Controllers for MOD 1 is set to -100% it works the other way round, in other words pushing the MW to its MAX position shuts off the vibrato, and brings it in slowly as the wheel is moved to its MIN position but this needs to be the other way around!- But at a setting +100% it has no effect.

vinnyburns · Post by **vinnyburns** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:06 pm

In the mod 1 section under the controllers menu, you need to just have Mod Wheel set to 100% and turn, pitch amount knob up and then set the LFO to the speed you want.
Annoyingly, things like aftertouch in the same control menu cannot be used at the same time

_DemonDan_ · Post by **_DemonDan_** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:33 pm

vinnyburns wrote:Annoyingly, things like Aftertouch in the same CONTROLLERS menu cannot be used at the same time.

Hang tight, vinnyburns.
The MODs are going to become much more powerful in future updates (but all of the improvements will not necessarily be in the next update).

FWIW, you actually *can* use Mod Wheel, Velocity, Aftertouch, and CC#2 all at once; but it's quite tricky to get it just right as they currently all multiply against each other. (Amos has explained the reasons in previous threads.)

Future revs will also allow you to *add* controller values instead of just multiplying them. Then it will be a whole new ballgame.

I've seen and heard hints of the future for the Sub 37 that will make it even more powerful.

I'm actually giddy about it. (Do you youngins still say giddy?;-)

deanross · Post by **deanross** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:09 pm

Hi Vinny thanks for your reply, but no I've tried that and pulling the MW down to its MIN position with the Mod Wheel amount in the Mod 1 controllers menu set to 100% won't shut the vibrato off. But setting the Mod Wheel amount to -100% in the Mod 1 Controllers menu DOES shut it off when the wheel is at its MAX position; in other words the other way around than it should be.

Dan can you help?

Cheers!

vinnyburns · Post by **vinnyburns** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:22 pm

deanross wrote:Hi Vinny thanks for your reply, but no I've tried that and pulling the MW down to its MIN position with the Mod Wheel amount in the Mod 1 controllers menu set to 100% won't shut the vibrato off. But setting the Mod Wheel amount to -100% in the Mod 1 Controllers menu DOES shut it off when the wheel is at its MAX position; in other words the other way around than it should be.

Dan can you help?

Cheers!

Have you set mod wheel to off in the mod 2 controller section?

vinnyburns · Post by **vinnyburns** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:24 pm

_DemonDan_ wrote:
vinnyburns wrote:Annoyingly, things like Aftertouch in the same CONTROLLERS menu cannot be used at the same time.
Hang tight, vinnyburns.
The MODs are going to become much more powerful in future updates (but all of the improvements will not necessarily be in the next update).

FWIW, you actually *can* use Mod Wheel, Velocity, Aftertouch, and CC#2 all at once; but it's quite tricky to get it just right as they currently all multiply against each other. (Amos has explained the reasons in previous threads.)

Future revs will also allow you to *add* controller values instead of just multiplying them. Then it will be a whole new ballgame.

I've seen and heard hints of the future for the Sub 37 that will make it even more powerful.

I'm actually giddy about it. (Do you youngins still say giddy?;-)

Looking forward to this being sorted out Dan.
Would be even better to be able to control the mod wheel and after touch without tying up the LFO and Mod 1 but I guess that is impossible.

deanross · Post by **deanross** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:44 pm

Yes Mod Wheel set to off in the Mod 2 controller section. Any idea why the vibrato won't shut off when the Mod wheel is at its minimum and set at 100% but will do so when set at Max with the MW set at -100%? (This is from an INIT patch)

Amos · Post by **Amos** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:21 pm

there was actually a bug in the firmware, v1.0.6 and earlier, where the knobs/wheels might not go absolutely to minimum and maximum.
This is fixed in firmware v1.0.7, which is available for download from the moogmusic website: http://www.moogmusic.com/products/phatt ... nloads-tab

deanross · Post by **deanross** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:08 am

Hi Amos

Yes I've been running 1.07. Any ideas why vibrato stops when the MW is at is MAX position with the Mod Wheel value at -100% in the Mod 1 Controllers page (with Mod Wheel value set to Off in the Mod 2 Control page) but has no effect i.e. vibrato doesn't stop when the MW is at its MIN position and the MW value set to 100%? Is it something incredibly simple I'm doing/not doing?

_DemonDan_ · Post by **_DemonDan_** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:56 am

deanross wrote:Any ideas why vibrato stops when the MW is at is MAX position with the Mod Wheel value at -100% in the Mod 1 Controllers page (with Mod Wheel value set to Off in the Mod 2 Control page) but has no effect i.e. vibrato doesn't stop when the MW is at its MIN position and the MW value set to 100%?

MIDI Monitor (Mac) or MIDI-OX (PC) will allow you to see exactly what values are being sent by the Mod Wheel.

Either of these apps will make it much easier to grasp what your gear is doing in lots of situations.

_DemonDan_ · Post by **_DemonDan_** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:02 am

What I expect you're going to find is that Mod Whee (CC#1) values are not going all the way to 0 when at minimum.

deanross · Post by **deanross** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:48 am

Hi Dan sure enough when I checked as you suggested, the MW at its MIN position shows a value of 49. at its MAX is 127. I tried INIT settings to restore Default Midi & Global settings but it's still the same. Any ideas how to get the MW to show a value of 0 at MIN?

Many thx

Dean

_DemonDan_ · Post by **_DemonDan_** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:54 am

deanross wrote:Hi Dan sure enough when I checked as you suggested, the MW at its MIN position shows a value of 49. at its MAX is 127. I tried INIT settings to restore Default Midi & Global settings but it's still the same. Any ideas how to get the MW to show a value of 0 at MIN?

Hi Dean,

Glad we were able to pinpoint it. Your previous test of trying -100% was good troubleshooting.
Talk to Moog about a calibration procedure for the Mod Wheel.

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Adding simple vibrato with MW Sub 37

Adding simple vibrato with MW Sub 37

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