MF-104Z vs MF-104M

redeyeflight · Post by **redeyeflight** » Tue May 28, 2013 8:25 pm

Longtime 104Z user here. Thinking about getting the 104M. Love the idea of the modulation and midi implementation. Anyone here hav both and compare just the regular delay signal? How about maximum delay time for both units?

stiiiiiiive · Post by **stiiiiiiive** » Wed May 29, 2013 7:13 am

I haven't A-B'ed the max delay times but I think they are similar.

About sound, I can tell the 104Z sounds more snappy when the feedback echoes are dying. 104M is a little more... paddy. Modulation helps push way, sounds great.

Alien8 · Post by **Alien8** » Wed May 29, 2013 10:42 am

There are a number of comparison videos on YouTube that do a great job showing the differences...

redeyeflight · Post by **redeyeflight** » Wed May 29, 2013 2:56 pm

Thanks for the replies. I've checked out a few youtube vids regarding the sound difference but the main one I could find (which I believe was posted here) didn't give a real side by side comparison just running both pedals at once. My 104z has been a constant companion of mine for a long time and I'm so used to the sound I'm hoping the 104m is pretty close is all!

Alien8 · Post by **Alien8** » Wed May 29, 2013 3:22 pm

From everything that I have heard they sound very similar, however the M is smoother & cleaner in it's repeats. You really should consider them to be different pedals, due to all of the additional abilities - filter switching for either short and long setting, extended glitchy delay times, LFO modulation, tap temp etc. It's a lot of pedal, but it's not a clone of the Z with extras.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igt2J42EvPs

There was another as well...

_DemonDan_ · Post by **_DemonDan_** » Thu May 30, 2013 11:25 am

I put my MF-104Z and MF-104M side by side with the same input,
and with both delays feeding the same amp.

In every case, I preferred the new MF-104M. As proof, I sold my
old MF-104Z the next day and have never missed it.

http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13791
(bottom of page 1)

Here's an in-depth MF-104M video plus 14 guitar audio examples:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MF104M/

Also, the Ext. Send/Return works much better on the MF-104M:
http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13865

Stuka · Post by **Stuka** » Thu May 30, 2013 1:06 pm

_DemonDan_ wrote:I put my MF-104Z and MF-104M side by side with the same input,
and with both delays feeding the same amp.

In every case, I preferred the new MF-104M. As proof, I sold my
old MF-104Z the next day and have never missed it.

http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13791
(bottom of page 1)

Here's an in-depth MF-104M video plus 14 guitar audio examples:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MF104M/

Also, the Ext. Send/Return works much better on the MF-104M:
http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13865

Damn -

Just when I thought I had everything I "needed", you post this & convince me I need to order a Phaser from you guys...

Randy

Portamental · Post by **Portamental** » Thu May 30, 2013 2:59 pm

_DemonDan_ wrote:I put my MF-104Z and MF-104M side by side with the same input,
and with both delays feeding the same amp.

In every case, I preferred the new MF-104M. As proof, I sold my
old MF-104Z the next day and have never missed it.

I was pondering whether or not trying to find a 104Z to add to my studio (and see the difference for myself). Coming from you that's gold advice. From one YT comparison of both, I thought the MF-104M sounded slightly better to me than the Z. Off topic, FWIW, the current MF-101 sounds better than the Big Briar one.

Similarly, there are a number of things that bother me about the SubPhatty. Small keyboard, firmware, CV limitations, awful sound bytes on the MM site (I play prog). I just watched your SubPhatty video this morning. You made me a believer. It sounds very good indeed. Thanks for all your efforts. You're the man!

Rabalder · Post by **Rabalder** » Fri May 31, 2013 7:21 am

Id take the Z over the M any day of the week.(in regards of the sound..) The modulation on the M kicks ass though.

Bryan T · Post by **Bryan T** » Fri May 31, 2013 7:53 pm

I had so many issues with my Z that I would never buy another Z and I'm hesitant to get the M. I loved my Z when it was working, but ...

Alien8 · Post by **Alien8** » Fri May 31, 2013 10:28 pm

What I love about the Z is simply how it sounds. It has this tone that mixed with its natural destruction of the original audio makes it its own instrument in the mix. You can let it gently brew a cocktail of tones that self indulge themselves in this other part of the audio field, then you can play right over top of it, and it will only take a little but of what you just played... and not the whole thing! Then it slightly morphs into another awesome tone.

It's just sooo damn smooth in how it works, but gnarly enough that it transforms an original signal into something living.

I'm sure the M does too, but I just don't care. The ClusterFlux gives me what I would want from the M.

peterk · Post by **peterk** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:36 pm

The whole debate on different models not sounding the same is bonkers. Most of the time you need a dogs ears to tell the difference. How many people listen to a song and say thats a moogerfooger 104z as opposed to a 104m because it sounds more snappier

EMwhite · Post by **EMwhite** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:33 pm

Portamental wrote: ... stuff deleted ... Off topic, FWIW, the current MF-101 sounds better than the Big Briar one.

Off off topic... you know the whole thru-hole vs. SMT debate?

Well I ripped my MF-101 from it's pedal packaging, desoldered all of the jacks, and put it behind an MU panel on for my modular. Sounds great and the envelope part of the circuit is rather unique not to mention built in drive and onboard mix.

But the point of my intrusion is to say that I could not, for the life of me, figure out which 8 transistors are part of the famous 4-pole ladder. I owned (and just sold) the MOTM-440 discreet OTA filter and that was obvious; also just bought (though have not yet received) a 904a MOS-LAB. But I just wanted to say that despite everything we think about components and audio, the MF-101 sounds damn good even if it doesn't even come close to resembling a traditional OTA based 4-pole.

Alien8 · Post by **Alien8** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:59 pm

peterk wrote:The whole debate on different models not sounding the same is bonkers. Most of the time you need a dogs ears to tell the difference. How many people listen to a song and say thats a moogerfooger 104z as opposed to a 104m because it sounds more snappier

That's not the debate. It's the playability and inspiration created from them. Every time I play the Z everything in the world disappears.

_DemonDan_ · Post by **_DemonDan_** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:26 am

peterk wrote:The whole debate on different models not sounding the same is bonkers. Most of the time you need a dogs ears to tell the difference. How many people listen to a song and say thats a moogerfooger 104z as opposed to a 104m because it sounds more snappier

I can tell more noise from less noise.
I can tell more high end from less high end.
I can tell an infinite loop that degrades into clacking from an infinite loop that keeps sounding like the source.
I can tell when the first repeat has the effect I placed in the Ext. Send/Return.
With time and experience, you'll learn that these differences are not "bonkers".

P.S. Do you really laugh out loud at your own typing?

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