EricK wrote:CZ,
Can you send a link to the stuff that you did when you acquired that s&h unit? That to me was the epitome of the Moog sound, and was the first example that came to mind when Just Me mentioned the STG mixer I'd like to emulate that Moog thump, which I am assuming is both the envelope and the mixer?
Not sure, but there is this one demo of the 1125, also had a polyphonic Voyager playing over top.
Moog Modular triggered by 1125 Sample Hold MP3 4.7MEG download
That classic Moog modular sharp pluck sound is one that kind of eluded me. I would hear this almost bass guitar type pick sound along with the bass note decay in old Moog recordings. Could never get that sound on my Mini. Just recently I upgraded my Moog to have the same envelope arangement the large Synthesizer III C/P systems had, by adding the 911A delay and third 911 envelope generator. And there it was! By firing two envelopes, one a short/sharp pluck along with a slower decay for the bass string into the VCF, I was able to duplicate that picked bass guitar sound. Also a bit of distortion from those CP3 mixers with the loopback. Same patch as in that photo in the earlier post.
Moog Modular Distortion Bass Pluck MP3 3.2MEG download
Here is the upgraded envelope arangement.
I would imagine you could get a similar pluck sound with a Dotcom by adding an extra envelope to modulate the filter.
That whole
mixer distortion/saturation thing, is just one of those classic sounding elements missing on some systems. The distortion "dirtys" up the tone a little, and by using descrete components, you get a different type saturation then you would using op-amps. So using a
mixer in that way just gives you more choices in tone coloring. Since my Moog had two mixers, I have put one
mixer after the VCF but before the VCA, to add in sine waves from the oscillators, the way they did it on the CS-80.
But I am having a ton of fun now that you got me thinking where the
mixer goes EricK. That VCA in the middle of the
mixer for feedback sounds great. On the Moog I put a 902 VCA in between the 907 FFB output and the 904A VCF input. An envelope/VCA controlled boost. The signal was always a little weaker after passing through miles of wire in those coils of the 907 filter bank. That 902 in the middle is a nice way to control the gain, and the gain can be shaped with an envelope, nice!
Did read that Muffwiggler thread about the STG
mixer. The STG
mixer was designed to work with 10 volt P-P oscillators, like the Dotcom ones. Won't distort with lower amplitude oscillators like the sine out from the 2.5 volt RS95E or the Moog Voyager oscillators. Have to boost them or multi them to get up to those levels.
So I was curious, just how much I distorted the waves from my 901's, after going through two CP3's with some feedback added. (Good question EricK!) So I pulled out the scope and had a look. I generally mix these by ear, and have an idea where the magic tones are for me. To my surprise, I was not really distorting them much, and almost all the flat clipping was on the bottom side. The CP3's are not symetric and on the -6 rail, clip before the upper +12 rail. It's a subtle area between when just the bottom is clipping and where the top clips, but that is where I usually find that magic tone. When the top begins to clip just a bit louder, the sound looses something. Never knew it was the top clipping I always back off from, I do it by ear? Interesting that the CP3's are lopsided. The STG is a tiny bit like that too, but I had a difficult time getting just the bottom half clipping. Might be a way to offset with those voltage inputs, so I must experiment more with the STG
mixer.
I guess we all have a different idea what that classic Moog Modular sound is. To me it's a filtered sound, and most of the demos I hear from MOS-LAB don't seem to have that high end filtered sound you would hear on so many old Berlin School recordings. My 904a has a limited range on setting 1, I do not really hear that on those demos where I can see their 904A clone is set on 1. Perhaps they thought it was a defect and fixed it? The Dotcom filter clone does not have this either, but there is not a range selector on it.
From the Moog docs for the 904A:
" Frequency range switch sets the band over which the FVC knob operated in two-octave steps:
1} 1Hz to 5kHz
2} 4Hz to 20kHz
3} 16Hz to 80kHz"
So the 904A at the range setting 1 has a wall at 5kHz, and no matter how much voltage you send to the inputs it stops there.
Here is an MP3 example of the 904A wall:
Moog 904a demo of the 5kHz wall MP3 2.1MEG download
Starts out as a standard Moog sounding sequence. At the 25 second mark, I turn the filter knob all the way up. That's as much as the filter will let through at setting 1. At 35 seconds I turn the filter to setting 2. Now you can hear the the high frequencies that were being filtered. At 42 seconds I turn the filter knob down so you can hear the envelops shaping the filter again. Doesn't sound bad on either setting, but I can hear that wall on many old recordings like TD's Pheadra sequenced Moog and others.
Guess you would need another fixed filter after a Dotcom Q150 to simulate the 904A wall?
The classic Moog sound to me are the ones where you hear them, you know right away it was created by a large Moog. There is a lot of overlap where even a Mini will sound similar, or even an equally equiped large modern modular. For me it almost always involved the Fixed Filter Bank, another really filtered tone, but seems the toughest to replicate with other gear.
The classic Moog Fixed Filter Tone:
The Moog FFB tone MP3 2MEG download
Oh, and can't forget just how much bass comes out of these old Moogs too!
