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Suggestions for the next generation of the Moog Guitar

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Suggestions for the next generation of the Moog Guitar

Postby Croyote » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:45 pm

Hey guys,

Let's pool our heads together for suggestions about what we would like to see improved or changed for the next generation of Moog Guitars. The E2 or whatever it becomes will sure be an incredible innovation.

Let's speak our voices, air our thoughts, and see if Moog will pick up on our ideas.
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Re: Suggestions for the next generation of the Moog Guitar

Postby Croyote » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:00 am

One thing I would like to see is a bridge redesign.

Perhaps Moog and Fishman could work out a deal to design a special series of bridges for the Moog. According to Mr. Vo, it's very important that the bridge be shielded so that it won't cause feedback. My primary line of logic is that the Fishman bridges would have less problematic parts that can be repaired easily. It could then be tailored from start to finish for the guitar, from the saddles being widened allowing different gauges more easily to the string slots being wider to allow the wrapped strings to pass through easier.

The use of a Fishman Powerbridge could potentially open up the variety of bridge styles the Moog Guitar, There are currently six types of bridge available :http://www.fishman.com/products/filter/series:powerbridge

I would also like to see that the tremolo models have a bit more room beneath the bridge to pitch bend the whammy up as well as down.

Another important alteration, is the design of the pickups. I love the sound of the quasi-P90 pickups in my Vo. However, I would like to try one that has a humbucker based design.

How about a volume control for the piezo out? Currently, I use a Taylor V-cable and it's fine, but I'd like to be able to dial it in on the guitar.

2-pole to 4-pole switch for the 2 Ladder Filter modes might be cool.

Two audio outs on the footpedal?

What would happen if we had a rotary LFO waveform switch on the guitar itself? That could be cool.

The neck finish on the E1 felt waxy and unnatural to me. I much prefer the feel of my neck on the Vo, perhaps there is a way to get a similar feel. My old Jackson Soloist had a painted and finished neck and it felt much better, but didn't sound as cool.

Lastly, I think that more Color Options need to be available. My E1 was a butterscotch, and I just didn't love the color. I recognize that the color is similar to that Keith Richards' original Tele color, but I think that guys who are into Moog's sound are also into far-out colors too. I would've loved one in blue, violet or translucent green.

And a suggestion for the Moog Guitar for the Moog Site in general : Please sell the strings in individual gauges for those who like to mix and match.
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Re: Suggestions for the next generation of the Moog Guitar

Postby cliffman » Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:10 pm

Is there any indication that Moog has any interest in an E2? It appears Mr. Vo has moved on, his next project finished Kickstarter funding already.
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Re: Suggestions for the next generation of the Moog Guitar

Postby Croyote » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:47 am

Considering the lack of response from Moog Music proper. They are either developing something new and secretive, or they don't want to own up to the question of repairs and service, or they just don't care for someone like me putting in my two cents.

I could totally see them selling the technology to another guitar company. I don't know that any of us want that . . . unless the owners make a series of guitars based upon customer demand and interest.

If the Moog Guitar has failed as a venture, it is not because of the lack of public interest; it's the lack of communication and hustling on the part of Moog Music. How many times have they chickened out in the last few years with PR campaigns? . . .Remember the awesome "What the Flux?" campaign. I wanted one of those damn T-shirts. :twisted: What ever happened to the development of a new Multi-pedal etc.?

When I have spoken to those in charge of the company and asked about concerns expressed in the past by other members of the forum regarding potential design flaws and challenges with the technology or implementation (primarily issues with the wilkinson) , they expressed no knowledge of it. The comments and concerns were even dismissed as criticism or the propaganda of detractors of the new instrument.

I think you will find detractors on places like Gearslutz or TGP by people who can't get their heads out of their weight-relieved Les Pauls' secret tone chambers, but not here. Perhaps I naively believe that those here are champions of the invention like I am, who only want to see it succeed and evolve.
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Re: Suggestions for the next generation of the Moog Guitar

Postby rove » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:19 pm

Bigsby option. Budget model, sub $2k (sub$1.5k even better). Oil finish.
Or, sell the electronics as a kit for folks to rev up their own custom guitars.
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Re: Suggestions for the next generation of the Moog Guitar

Postby cliffman » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:28 pm

rove wrote:Bigsby option. Budget model, sub $2k (sub$1.5k even better). Oil finish.
Or, sell the electronics as a kit for folks to rev up their own custom guitars.


If you want a kit to build your own, Paul Vo still has the some of the Lev-96 packages available, maybe. That what I'm doing.
I have a luthier, just waiting for Vo to start shipping. And the kit is (barely) sub $1.5K.

I love my Moog guitar, but the music store I got mine from had two. I bought the first. The second was unsold for about three years. In Portland, Oregon, land of 1000 bands.
( I felt very guilty, because I ordered through the shop, and Moog made him buy two to get mine. )
I think Moog did the E1 as a one-off, because the MoogFoogers put Moog into a lot of guitar shops they perhaps thought they could open a new market. But, it's way outside their comfort zone as a product, and I certainly don't blame them for abandoning it, as it clearly failed to gain traction and was likely not profitable for them, considering how long they had to sit on stock. Moog seems to be doing quite well sticking to what they know. (The Sub Phatty seems to be quite big)

I think Mr. Vo has moved on, and if you are a fan of the technology, I'd suggest supporting the inventor, rather than whinging at the nice Moog people.
Or dreaming about something thats not very likely to happen.
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Re: Suggestions for the next generation of the Moog Guitar

Postby Croyote » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:20 am

:lol:

Per my communication w/ Andy in Customer Service:

"Absolutely, we will continue to offer service and support for the Moog Guitar for the foreseeable future. We just are not actively making new guitars at this time."

Cliff, yer right in a sense. Paul is a very nice and communicative guy. He has tolerated my passionate insanity with a charming sardonic wit and is more than gracious enough to answer my incessant questions.

If I had the extra cash and the interest, I would invest in the Vo-96. Paul claims it's a major improvement over the Moog Guitar electronics . . . my only problem is that I have little to no interest in the steel string acoustic guitar. Now, if Mr. Vo could find some way to excite nylon strings then I would sell everything I own to get one (besides my PVCE). If I get a windfall, and the wiggle room I will jump on the steel-string one, anyway.

Paul gives tough love to his difficult customers with challenging questions; so far, besides a few instances early on I feel like I've gotten mostly the cold shoulder from MM. That needs to change, I can't be the only Moog guitarist who is passionate about the technology and thinks outside the box.

:twisted:
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Re: Suggestions for the next generation of the Moog Guitar

Postby cliffman » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:59 pm

I am planning a solid-body guitar. But, it will use piezo pickups, with a 13-pin out.

Expecting a technology created in the 1930's, based on magnetism to work well with the Vo tech, which uses large amounts of magnetic energy is a fool's errand, IMHO.
That's the issue with the Moog guitar. After banging my head on walls for quite awhile, i now play my Moog guitar through a VG-99. Don't even plug in the audio out.
Works well, I don't care if the models sound like the real thing - don't really need that, actually. (Plus, FX for days, and the hand controls for modulation work well with the sustain)

So, I don't see how a design based on a desire for old pickups can be feasible. Heck, mag pickups can't even cope well with neon lights.
Mag pickups are like the piano keyboard, what they do they do very well, but other approaches are needed for other types of music. I play my Telecaster lots, still.
I think a new instrument requires some outside-the-box thinking on a new pickup system, before this can be really electric.
I'm going to go as far as I can with what I can git. :)
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Re: Suggestions for the next generation of the Moog Guitar

Postby Croyote » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:37 am

cliffman wrote:Expecting a technology created in the 1930's, based on magnetism to work well with the Vo tech, which uses large amounts of magnetic energy is a fool's errand, IMHO.
That's the issue with the Moog guitar. After banging my head on walls for quite awhile, i now play my Moog guitar through a VG-99. Don't even plug in the audio out.
Works well, I don't care if the models sound like the real thing - don't really need that, actually. (Plus, FX for days, and the hand controls for modulation work well with the sustain)

So, I don't see how a design based on a desire for old pickups can be feasible. Heck, mag pickups can't even cope well with neon lights.
Mag pickups are like the piano keyboard, what they do they do very well, but other approaches are needed for other types of music. I play my Telecaster lots, still.


I have to say that I fundamentally disagree with you Cliff. Do you own an E1-M?

My PVCE sounds fantastic. However, I owned an E1 briefly, and did everything I could to upgrade quickly.

My feeling having played both is that the alder body is not tonally resonant or rich enough to get the most out of the MG pickups. Mahogany and Maple on the other hand give the broadest tonal spectrum available, and these pickups do it better than any Seth Lover or Burstbucker BS. In fact, I often feel that I have so much tone on my hands I often don't know what to do with it all!

The MG pickups have been compared to P-90s. Has anyone ever seen an alder body guitar w/ P-90s? I haven't but I know that if they exist they aren't popular enough to be widely played. Perhaps a Jaguar or Jazzmaster gets close, but cool as they are, they are not flagship guitars.

I'll also note that my piezo out sounds fantastic (with all my tweaks and adjustments) from my PVCE.

I like your idea for the Vo-96 piezo electric and if a spot is left I might just do a similar idea, but you had better bet I won't be using alder for my tonewood.

So this brings me to another suggestion: Don't use Alder on the guitar.

I also want to reaffirm my suggestion for more pickup options. If Vo-Moog could do amazing things with the P-90 design, why not experiment with sounds akin to humbuckers and pickup splitters, etc as well? . . .that could be fun!
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