EMF effects on health with prolonged use

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Voltor07
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by Voltor07 » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:34 pm

EricK, we all know that illnesses are caused by body thetans, and the OP's body thetans are centralized around the Moog Guitar. It's all in L Ron Hubbard's book, Dianetics. If you REALLY want to heal yourself, the book of Dianetics is a must-read. :wink:
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Vsyevolod
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by Vsyevolod » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:02 pm

EricK wrote:1.You are claiming to have special powers that noone else has...which is the ability to feel the "offness" of trace amounts of RF. This is absurd.
I take it from your comment that you don't feel any effects from cell phone usage? That's totally cool.
Cell phones barely use half a watt. Unless you are on a cell tower hanging right in front of a Super High Frequency, high powered GHz Beam antenna, you won't feel anything.
In short, there is both RF and EMF to consider when talking about cell phone usage.
Acupuncture is not a legitimate form of medicine. Like dowsing, psychics, mediums, ghosts, and alien abductions, it is quackery. Please don't bother defending your partner's occupation to me. You won't convince me. No disrespect to her.
If there was no disrespect intended, why the condescending tone? You may see things in a different way than the next person. That's totally cool. Does it make you more correct?
Why wouldn't you trust the FCC to set up acceptable MPE (maximum permissible exposure) limits?
What with big money purchasing lobbyists these days, why would anyone just assume that a government oversight organization be free from political special interests?
The article you referenced quoted only uses suppositions and conjecture. The Author has a gut instinct about it but no evidence. He even tried to use his sick son (mercury toxicity) to validate his faith in RF being the cause of his "internal dysfunction".
Well his other son happens to be a friend of mine. So let's just say that I have more information about that particular event than the casual reader. His son (my friend) is also an acupuncturist, which may or may not be mitigated by the fact that he's also a Naturopath. I suppose it depends on whether or not you consider Naturopathy a form of 'quackery' or not. Hmmm, my spell check doesn't include 'Naturopath' so it's immediately suspect...
Please don't come here propagating nonsense and hysteria.
Okay.

Please respect that other people have ways of looking at the world that are different than yours.

When I play music with my band, there are times that we really 'lift off' and 'enter another world'. Without drugs even. More quackery, eh? Or perhaps you might have a similar experience being a musician? It can't be scientifically proven... :)

Stephen




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Voltor07
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by Voltor07 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:57 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturopathy It does exist, and it IS a valid form of treatment for many things. I've used it myself to increase my liver function after nearly destroying my liver completely. Mostly sober for a year now...with the exception of New Year's. :oops:

However, I should be dead by now if RF/EMF causes severe sickness. I spent the better part of highschool building unregulated Jacob's Ladders, poorly tuned Tesla coils, even took a spool of copper house wire and plugged it into the wall! Dad was only upset that the TV was affected during the football game, as I was directly below the family room. Not to mention countless hours spent talking to various people on my cell phone. Am I saying it's okay to move under high voltage power lines? I wouldn't do it, but people have, and they've survived. Once you start worrying about something, it WILL kill you. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. MHO. TIFWIW. :)

BTW, do you have any idea of the RF/EMF coming out of a tube style TV? Or did you know a 50" plasma TV puts out TWICE the EMF of a 36" tube television, which in turn puts out about 1000 times as much EMF as standard active guitar pickups? The difference is in the frequencies these devices run on. Not how much power they use. Case in point, a 50" plasma tv can heat up the area surrounding it, because of its high output.

A CRT, even a big one like a 36", will not get hot like a plasma TV. It puts out LESS RF and EMF than a plasma, and does so at a much lower, almost audible, frequency. Yet how many people have plasmas as opposed to CRT's? I guess that means that severe illnesses will skyrocket in five years, right? :wink:
Minitaur, CP-251, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Pyramid stereo power amp, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ, dot com modular.

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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by Vsyevolod » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:35 pm

Voltor07 wrote:I guess that means that severe illnesses will skyrocket in five years, right? :wink:
The thing is, no one can really know yet. A lot of this stuff is new enough that we don't have enough data. Though it reminds me of the cigarette companies in total denial of any ill health effects up until relatively recently. And yet they knew full well. Nowadays we take it as scientific fact that smoking is not so good for your health. My father has been smoking for the past 60 years. That doesn't mean that he should be dead by now, just that his health isn't going to be as optimal as if he never smoked.

For the OP who has been experiencing pain, he has gotten several responses, all of which might or might not be helpful. He wasn't asking for any definitive objective scientific data, just possible areas to look at. Which is what he got. If reducing the usage of the Moog guitar and playing the Godin Sustainiac alleviates his pain, we don't really need to know whether it was caused by posture, RF, EMF, or spending too much time on the Internet. However, if it is related to RF or EMF, it would be good to know. Even to get scientific corroboration. I'm not interested in hocus pocus mumbo jumbo, neither am I a fan of 'following the crowd' when shouted down. I am a fan of options and sifting through them carefully.

Stephen




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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by Voltor07 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:13 am

Vsyevolod wrote: I'm not interested in hocus pocus mumbo jumbo, neither am I a fan of 'following the crowd' when shouted down. I am a fan of options and sifting through them carefully.

Stephen




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Indeed. I like to keep an open mind as well. After all, the only difference between science and magic is that science has been explained using data. Before there was science, there was magic...because people didn't know the science behind things...like fire, lightning, and whatnot. Later, magic became science, which was in turned used to make magic tricks, and stuff...but I digress. :lol:
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by EricK » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:24 pm

Vsyevolod wrote:I take it from your comment that you don't feel any effects from cell phone usage? That's totally cool.
1. You should take it from my comment that I am saying that you are delusional if you think you are feeling things from cell phones. Now, Im not irrational enough to totally rule out the possibility that people could perhaps “feel” “something”, but the fact that you seem to draw conclusions so fast that it is RF and that the younger generation can’t feel what you feel, coupled with the fact that you seem to be an advocate for acupuncture tells me that you are unable to discern confirmation bias from the placebo effect.

Vsyevolod wrote:In short, there is both RF and EMF to consider when talking about cell phone usage.
2. In short, RF and EMF is the same thing.
Vsyevolod wrote:If there was no disrespect intended, why the condescending tone? You may see things in a different way than the next person. That's totally cool.
3. Im not insulting your partner as a person, Im insulting the fact that charlatans like acupuncturists, snake-oil salesmen, and quack doctors prey upon weak minded people who are desperately hoping for the miracle cures that are peddled to them every day. It is no different than psychics who tell the families of murder victims that their loved one is floating in the river or faith healers getting peoples grandparents to throw away their prescriptions.
Vsyevolod wrote:Does it make you more correct?
4. You can see the world anyway you want. The Flat Earth Society needs your help! So to answer your question, I’d say yes, my worldview is based upon principles that are more scientifically valid than yours. Im no longer willing to respect other peoples’ idiocy when they insist on spreading it around like the plague.

Vsyevolod wrote:What with big money purchasing lobbyists these days, why would anyone just assume that a government oversight organization be free from political special interests?
5. So basically, you will trust pseudosciences without question, but will be a skeptic when it comes to what the FCC says about RF Safety. Why be worried at all about the harmful effects of electromagnetic fields when you could just cure it with acupuncture, homeopathy, or naturopathy? Problem solved!

Vsyevolod wrote:Well his other son happens to be a friend of mine. So let's just say that I have more information about that particular event than the casual reader. His son (my friend) is also an acupuncturist, which may or may not be mitigated by the fact that he's also a Naturopath. I suppose it depends on whether or not you consider Naturopathy a form of 'quackery' or not. Hmmm, my spell check doesn't include 'Naturopath' so it's immediately suspect...
6. So, you post an ambiguous article and try to legitimize it claiming that you have secret knowledge, therefore your argument is credible. Why not pull up an article that provides ANSWERS instead of one intended to make people have more questions???
Vsyevolod wrote:Please respect that other people have ways of looking at the world that are different than yours.
7. Again, you can look at the world any way that you want. But you are doing a disservice to other people who are trying to weed through the bullshite to find real facts when you come on here and propagate nonsensical, anti-scientific misinformation. If you want people like me to not find your mysticism offensive, then gather everyone you know and start your own country where you can have your own science, your own medicine, and your can-and-string communications network and when you all die of diseases that we cured eons ago because you reject vaccinations, then we won’t have to listen to your henny penny nonsense anymore and we can move on as a species.
Vsyevolod wrote:When I play music with my band, there are times that we really 'lift off' and 'enter another world'. Without drugs even. More quackery, eh? Or perhaps you might have a similar experience being a musician? It can't be scientifically proven... :)
Chemistry can explain every physiological process that occurs in every cell of your body. Perhaps you would prefer Alchemy.


Okay, scratch all of the above. If you can feel the effects of radio transmitters, why not take the James Randi challenge? He will give you a million dollars if you can prove it.

We will hide transmitters in a bucket. If you can demonstrate this superhuman ability to detect cell phones in a bucket, they you can walk away with a cool million.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html







Voltor,
Peter Lipson wrote:Naturopathy is basically a collection of old fashioned medical superstitions presented under a veneer of highly speculative, quasi-scientific assertions. The treatments they recommend for allergies are implausible and not supported by evidence.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... allergies/
Last edited by EricK on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by Voltor07 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:53 pm

EricK wrote:
Voltor,
Peter Lipson wrote:Naturopathy is basically a collection of old fashioned medical superstitions presented under a veneer of highly speculative, quasi-scientific assertions. The treatments they recommend for allergies are implausible and not supported by evidence.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... allergies/
Remember that the next time you take Tylenol. Acetaminophen is derived from the bark of a tree. Don't recall what tree, per se, but definitely from a tree. I'm the last person to say that naturopathy should be the ONLY way to cure something, me being a psych nurse and all, but there is a lot of things nature can provide for a lot of ailments as well as preventative care. :)
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by EricK » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:14 pm

All I'm going to say is that extraordinay claims require extrordinary evidence.
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by EricK » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:49 pm

Stephen,
I got to thinking that perhaps my response to you above was a little harsh. I apologize. I think I could have made my case in a more respectable manner.

Eric
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by Vsyevolod » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:05 am

Hey don't worry about it. I know better than to get all twisted up inside from Internet discussion groups. :)

FWIW, I have been making an offer on a Moog guitar because I have a strong curiosity about them. It will be interesting to play, in light of the various discussions here, as to whether any effects are noticed.

Hopefully it all works out fine.

Stephen




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