EMF effects on health with prolonged use

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thebrushwithin
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EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by thebrushwithin » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:41 am

Hello - I thoroughly enjoy my El-M, and it gets played a lot. I do a one man band for a living, and play 8 hour shifts, which is unusual, of course. My concern is the effects of electromagnetic fields generated at such close proximity to the body. You can feel the heat generated by this, on the back of the guitar. My concern is that I have been suddenly experiencing pain in my front right side where the heat of the guitar rests. Not to be an alarmist, but these are new uncharted waters we Moog guitarists are in the middle of, so I thought I would bring this up to see if anyone else is experiencing this sort of health effect. I have no health insurance, and so going to the doctor is unfortunately a last resort for me, but this only started after a few weeks with the guitar. In the meantime, I may start playing my Godin w/sustainer again, to see if the pain subsides. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

cliffman
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by cliffman » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:55 pm

I'd be more concerned about a) your posture (which might change when you play the Godin, be observant)
and b) your diet. Check your fiber intake.

Sweep
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by Sweep » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:40 pm

I think you're doing the right thing not using it for a while to see what happens.

Have you also tried using Google to see what comes up about this - whether there is any reliable medical knowledge?

Also, could it be the problem isn't electromagnetic, but simply your body involuntarily backing off from the heat? Normally heat relaxes muscles, but if there's a heat source your body experiences as a problem then you may have localised muscle tension where the heat source is. I'm not a medical person, but I'd guess a doctor would be able to identify the muscles involved and tell whether the effect is localised to tissue or occurs along any large muscles in the area.
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EricK
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by EricK » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:00 pm

I seriously seriously seriously doubt that the pickups are going to be hazardous to your health.

If you have any legit concerns, look at the power (other than VO power lol) that is driving ANY potential RF, and then look at the frequency and go from there in your research of it's affects on the human body.

There can be anything in there that is causing heat....like that huge PCB. Remember that energy can dissipate as heat, so any heat you might experience could be totally unrelated to any potential RF generation.


There is a video on youtube of some guy in Asheville, at the Moog factory, trying to demonstrate to Jason Daniello the so called energy field of the guitar using DOWSING RODS. :lol:

I think that video has since ben pulled from youtube because I can't seem to find it. It was called Moog Guitar Clinic as a quick forum search revealed.

Sweep, on a side note... when I found that post I saw your comment about dowsing. Look at what James Randi has to say about dowsing.
It is completely and utterly a sham to think that is even remotely legitimate or respectable in any sence of the words.

If you don't believe me, there is currently a Million Dollar Challenge to anyone who can do this or any other forms of quackery:
http://www.randi.org/library/dowsing/
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Sweep
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by Sweep » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:11 pm

I don't necessarily regard that video as having any substance as far as health issues are concerned (I simply don't know for sure. Do you?)

But I seem to recall the guy noticing an adjustment the guitarist made to the pickups with the dowsing rods, not visually, which would mean his rods were picking up things he didn't have visual clues for. It would be nice to see that video again to check that, if whoever first put it on YouTube could do that again.
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EricK
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by EricK » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:14 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMtuWymUzz4

Dowsing is absolute quackery.
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EricK
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by EricK » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:25 pm

There are a lot of people making waves (no pun intended) about the dangers of RF exposure concerning cell phone usage.
Moog would have to provide the specs on the magnetic field generation, and also for their theremins, which I think the affects on the body are negligible.

I would email them with such concerns.

If there was any RF generation, there would surely be some FCC guidelines and applicable warning inserts, and at the very least, if there was a concern (which i strongly doubt that there is a legitimate danger here) it could be shielded to protect you.

I agree with cliffman about posture and would add carpel tunnel syndrome as a far greater threat to your overall well being than those pickups.


As far as heat goes, what is the temperature of the guitar? I have a feeling that it is not the type of heat that will relax muscles (160˚F moist heat). That kind of heat is superficial, and wouldn't cause any type of pain to muscles. A lot of people are finding that having their hot laptops on their laps for prolonged periods is "cooking" their skin, but again that is superficial heat.

It could be that your concerns are either caused by something unrelated, or psychosomatic in nature. At any rate, consult your physician!

Eric
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thebrushwithin
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by thebrushwithin » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:22 am

Thanks very much to all who replied.

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DeFrag
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by DeFrag » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:13 am

All the while, billions of neutrinos are passing through your body at this very moment.
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MF-101 Filter • MF-102 Ring • MF-103 Phaser • MF-104Z Delay • MF-105 MuRF • MF-107 FreqBox • MF-108M Cluster • Etherwave
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

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Christopher Winkels
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by Christopher Winkels » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:20 pm

In other news: we will all die.

portugaljazz
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by portugaljazz » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:06 am

Numerous studies have produced contradictory results, yet some experts are convinced that the threat is real.

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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by Voltor07 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:59 am

Cancer has been found to be hereditary in laboratory rats. And in unrelated news, microwave ovens have been found to contain no radiation at all.
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EricK
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by EricK » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:11 am

I don't know who started this rumor but Moog needs to respond to this before James Randi needs to get involved loll.

If you are really worried about it, take the guitar to someone in the local Amateur Radio community (maybe someone at the city Office of Emergency Management or an Amateur who has an antenna array) and let someone with an RF Field Detector measure it.

It would be interesting to see how many watts the Guitar put out IF it actually puts out RF. Cellphones are generally about .5w.


Read this for more information about RF safety
http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/rfsafety/rf-faqs.html#Q9
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Vsyevolod
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by Vsyevolod » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:58 pm

I'm not a big alarmist on the effects of RF radiation, though I do stay away from cell phones because I do feel a slight 'offness' in myself when I use them. Many of the younger generation may not be sensitive to this, just because they grew up using them. I also stay away from earbuds because the ElectroMagnetic drivers in them are just too close to the brain. I have a set of earbuds that send the sound via 3 inches of air tube to get around this.

Great, now you view me as some NewAge alarmist whacko... :) Let's just say that I'd be concerned enough to do further research. Trusting the FCC is one of the last things I'd ever do though.

There are plenty of people who could give you an RF reading on your guitar and then tell you if that may be harmful. My partner is an acupuncturist and she has one of these meters that she uses from time to time. Here is a link to the meter that she has. Dr. Craig Sommers (who sells them) might be open to questions if you emailed him directly.

http://www.rawfoodsbible.com/index.php? ... mfservices

Also another friend of mine's father has done extensive research on EMF and their effects. Here's an article that might lead you to even more questions...

http://www.heartmdinstitute.com/wireles ... opollution

If you are experiencing pain in the area where the guitar rests, I would seriously look into it. And let the rest of us know what you uncover.

Stephen




.

EricK
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Re: EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Post by EricK » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:25 pm

Stephen,
With all due respect you did a pretty nice job of trying to convince us that you aren't a new age whacko, but you weren't sucessful.
A few points:

1.You are claiming to have special powers that noone else has...which is the ability to feel the "offness" of trace amounts of RF. This is absurd.
Amateur Radio Relay League wrote:RF energy is non ionizing radiation. RF energy will only cause injury to the human body if the combination of frequency and power causes excessive energy to be absorbed.. The only demonstrated hazards from exposure to RF energy are thermal effects. Biological (athermal) effects have not been demonstrated at Amateur frequencies and power levels. Measurable heating only occurs for very strong fields or in fields that originate very close to the body. RF safety techniques involve making sure that persons are not exposed to high strength fields in two ways
* Preventing access to locations where strong fields are present
* Making sure strong fields are not created in or directed to areas where people might be present
This is in regards to Amateur Radio operation (Technician Class) which is around 45-200 watts. Cell phones barely use half a watt. Unless you are on a cell tower hanging right in front of a Super High Frequency, high powered GHz Beam antenna, you won't feel anything.

Acupuncture is is not a legitimate form of medicine. Like dowsing, psychics, mediums, ghosts, and alien abductions, it is quackery. Please don't bother defending your partner's occupation to me. You won't convince me. No disrespect to her.


Why wouldn't you trust the FCC to set up acceptable MPE (maximum permissable exposure) limits?

The article you referenced quoted only uses suppositions and conjecture. The Author has a gut instinct about it but no evidence. He even tried to use his sick son (mercury toxicity) to validate his faith in RF being the cause of his "internal dysfunction". He also talked about SAR rates.....those are rates that are not necessarily device specific, but PEOPLE SPECIFIC. Different people, wearing different clothing, of different masses, experiencing radiation of different power and frequency and exposure durations will have a different SAR. He recommended getting an "electropollution detector". This article is catering to people who are already paranoid about it in the first place. Much like those websites who market gas masks and duct tape to people paranoid about terrorist attacks.


Please don't come here propogating nonsense and hysteria.





ALL THAT IT WOULD TAKE TO PUT THIS TO REST IS FOR SOMEONE FROM MOOG TO COMMENT ON THE NATURE OF THE VO PICKUPS. DO THEY GENERATE RF OR NOT?
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