How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

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Jorg
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How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by Jorg » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:45 pm

Been scrolling through the menus had a look through the manual but cant find what I'm looking for.

I'm syncing the LFO to the song tempo via Midi clock which works fine.
However I want the LFO cycle to begin when the note begins but cant find a setting for this. Is it possible on the Little Phatty?

What I mean is, lets say you modualte your filter via the LFO. Lets say I chose a triangle wave for the LFO and the speed is 1/2 note. If the LFO cycle would begin new everytime a new note is hit the Filter would always be open on the same beat in the track.
At the moment it keeps starting from different points as the LFO internally keeps running, in sync with the track but not always Alligned.

I hope I described it well enough. I think the experts out there know what I mean. Help would be very much appreciated!

Sir Nose
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Re: How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by Sir Nose » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:37 pm

The LFO is free run only. The LP has no LFO retrigger manual or at note on. Retrigger at note on would be great, but I would settle for a manual button push (similar to the tap temp, hold a button till it flashes then each time you press it the LFO retriggers). I am hoping for this in the next OS update, but I do not know if it's even feasible.

Jorg
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Re: How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by Jorg » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:04 am

Thanks for your reply. At least I can stop looking now.
I tried to automate the filter on the DAW instead but on fast automations it sounded weird as if the Lil Phatty couldnt keep up.
Yeh, LFO retrigger on note on would be a great addition to the next update if its possible at all.

Thanks!

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Assar
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Re: How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by Assar » Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:21 pm

Check the end of this thread and see if that is what you are looking for:
http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopi ... 9879#49879
At least, that works if you are using Cubase. Propably something similar with other daws.
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Little Phatty TE #1045 | Etherwave Theremin
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Jorg
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Re: How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by Jorg » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:35 am

Hi,
thanks for the link! That was very helpful. Unfortunately it still doesnt work 100% but it works better!

Jorg
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Re: How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by Jorg » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:45 pm

I was wondering if this feature made it into OS3?

It would be such a great thing to have for all those dubstep basses. I noticed that a lot of Slim Phatty presets have that "filter wobble" on the mod wheel. Having the LFO cycle triggered would make these sounds so much more useful.

Sir Nose
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Re: How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by Sir Nose » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:07 pm

AFAIK, it is not possible. It has not been directly stated by those in the know, but everytime they chime in they state that "it is free running only." The LFO is digital, so I would guess there are undesired artifacts when it is retriggered. The LFO does retrigger when I restart my sequencer, though.

I have been sending CCs for changing the midi clock divider for LFO sync. Going from a fast wobble, I can catch the note on at the right moment to achieve sweeps starting from different points in the LFO cycle.

JWaltman
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Re: How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by JWaltman » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:17 pm

Two things..

1. OMGF.. my LP has something digital ;)
2. If it's digital, why doesn't it have a "restart on key down" option?

I will try the restart thing with a sequencer though, I didn't have any success yet, but I feel lucky now :)

ps. I was one of the "fee running" guys, my apologies for giving the wrong idea!

Sir Nose
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Re: How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by Sir Nose » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:53 pm

The audio path is 100% analog. The envelopes are as well. The LFO being digital definately enables it to be retriggered. I am guessing when retriggered there is some undesired effect; maybe due to the fact that the digital LFO is converted to an analog control voltage before manipulating the pitch, waveform, or filter.

EMwhite
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Re: How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by EMwhite » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:01 am

Actually, there is one way to reset the LFO; and that's to send a clock start command. If you're forcing some sequence of Midi commands with each Note on, or at very specific points in your sequence, you can do this.

I tested this from my Jomox xBase 09 by sync'ing LP's LFO to Midi; and indeed, each depress of the start button restarts the LFO.

Am sure Amos can include this on a future release. Patience...
'76 Minimoog, Taurus 3, Oberheim FVS + Son of 2-voice; Sequential ProOne; Juno 106; Moog Model 15; Kurzweil 250; Hammond M3; and a handful of Fender Basses Flickr!

JWaltman
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Re: How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by JWaltman » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:00 am

first things first, I believe this is an analog synth, but how does a digital LFO make it so? Because when I think about this I actually knew, because all of a sudden it got an extra waveform in a software update ;)

What makes an analog synth analog? If the audio is changed by an LFO which is digital, how can the audio path be 100% digital? Is there a D/A converter for the LFO? And why isn't the LFO analog? Costs issue? Upgrading issue?

Sir Nose
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Re: How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by Sir Nose » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:33 am

Midi sync for one, is a big advantage to the digital LFO. I think the voyager LFO is digital as well, not certain though.

You'll here all sorts of arguments for what's analog enough. DCO are digitally clocked analog OSC. They are in tune the minute you fire up, but there is no drift. The drift produces a fatter tone. The stablity of modern VCOs means there are less tuning issues once warm, but less drift between oscillator. But, still more compared to no drift present in DCOs. Some may perfer an analog LFO. I don't have the experience to have a preference, other than I often use features that are only available digitally. The mod sources where I have heard people say they can here the digital nature is the S&H and noise. Having frequency drift in a waveform source for the LFO would be more annoying than a benefit to me, some may perfer it. Depending on the rate it won't be noticable till it's been running a while. It really depends on the type of music you are making. The LFO is converted to an analog CV before it interacts with the audio signal. It performs manipulations that you could otherwise accomplish with twisting a knob back and forth. Since by the time the LFO interacts with the audio signal produced by oscillators it is an analog voltage, the signal path is 100% analog. The envelopes could be digital as well and the audio path would still be 100% analog. This is not the case on the LP, but is true of other "analog" synths. Since, the audio runs through the filter and is not just manipulated by it, the filter does need to be analog to have an analog signal path. Plus with RES, the filter also becomes an audio source.

The key is to use your ear, not listen to the hype. If you have a CP-251 (I believe it's LFOs are analog) or another analog LFO source, plug it into one of the CV ins (filter or pitch). Then you can compare the internal digitally generated LFO to an analog LFO and listen if you hear a difference.

alamilla
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Re: How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by alamilla » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:34 am

EMwhite wrote:Actually, there is one way to reset the LFO; and that's to send a clock start command.
This is the most common way around.
Using Ableton Live (or your DAW of choice) to sync the Phatty via MIDI/USB cable will re-trigger the LFO start point, for instance when recording a sequence.

Jorg
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Re: How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by Jorg » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:31 pm

Thanks a lot for all the tips!!

I noticed as well that when I press play in Cubase that the LFO LED resets and cycles from the beginning.
How do I send that clock start command on each note tho? Is it a midi controller? If so, does anyone know which number. I have to admit I am a bit rusty on the advanced midi stuff.

Thanks
Jorg

Sir Nose
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Re: How to sync LFO cycle to "note on"

Post by Sir Nose » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:19 pm

Not sure if this can send a start command when a note on command comes in, but it may be worth your time to read it's manual.

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodevp.htm

It can be used for many other things, but $150 may be a bit much for a function that might be added in an OS update.

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