auto-tune: do i get nice analog drifts if i turn it off?

tonnu · Post by **tonnu** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:17 pm

dear all,

been contemplating buying a LP

however, from the demos i've heard, the LP sounds a bit too clinical compared to vintage ...

http://vimeo.com/1149110

see that video ... the LP side by side with the rogue

the rogue has more drifty vco's and they sound great ... esp. on the first patch in the video .. the phasing of the osc sounds really nice and animated

i figure that if you turn auto-tuning off, will this in effect let the vco's of the LP's drift and create the same effect?

or will the detuning be nasty and unmusical?

maybe part of the vintage charm is also the aging circuits, giving grunginess to the vco's and the filters, whatever?

thanks for all your answers, and hopefully i'll be a proud of the LP sometime soon!

Portamental · Post by **Portamental** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:44 pm

I think there's something to be said about the flaws and characteristics of vintage analog. They're hard to match so many say. And you'll find numerous videos all over geared at comparing modern to vintage. Yes vintage sounds good on these. But there are cons to owning vintage.

On the other side of the medal, LP is modern, sounds absolutely gorgeous and is a much more full featured synth than vintage. You don't find that many videos showing how good the LP can sound when vintage is asked of it, but I remember seeing one in particular where emphasis was making it sound Rogue alike, with a Rogue side by side, many kind of patches demonstrated. You'd be hard pressed to pick up which one is which without the visual.

If it's advice toward purchasing LP vs vintage you're after, my opinion is that you can't go wrong with the LP, a wonderful piece of technology that sounds real good. Moog has all sorts of things to augment the grunginess of your LP if you like, but one is built right in as a matter of fact : the grunginess knob (commonly called Overload).

CTRLSHFT · Post by **CTRLSHFT** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:56 pm

vintage sounds different. get vintage if you want that sound, but just be prepared to handle the consequences.

modern analog is cleaner, and has very stable oscs. the lack of 30 year old parts will also greatly impact the overall character of the sound. as to whether the sound of the LP is for you, test it out.

The Rogue and the LP are not the same machine, plain and simple.

tonnu · Post by **tonnu** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:44 am

unfortunately i live in a country where there are almost no synths for sale (bkk, thailand) and i can't try them out

all my synthy stuff are shipped from the states ... so far it's only the rackmount variety or a modular (as, except for the cases, the modules themselves are quite light!)

now i'm traveling to hong kong and there's a shop that sells the moog. the thing is, as you all know, the mighty GAS is all powerful indeed. i am certain that i would not be able to make reasoned judgment when standing in front of the LP and i'll have to buy it for sure.

anyway, back to the original question. while i understand that the LP is not vintage by any means, still, would disabling the auto-tune function have any positive impact on the driftiness of the sound?

thanks!

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:20 am

Man I think that you would be happy with the LP. I can't say what would happen if youd turn the Temperature off, but besides the great analogue drift, you get ALL THE OTHER BENEFITS OF ANALOGUE.

It is reccomended a 30 minute warmup before recording, so how long are you wanting to play with the drift.

Ill bet that there are ways to simulate the drift through very subtle CV modulation.

Thailand eh? I know 1 person that lives there. His name is Boonjong. Id like to get in touch with him.

Seriously I think if you made that drive, heard it youd pick it up instantly.

Welcome to the forum.

Eric

whats GAS?

Portamental · Post by **Portamental** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:54 am

The LP is modern, well built and a much better option for you in your situation i think.

You can easily program any drift you like by setting low amount of slow LFO on either OSC1 1 or Osc2 on the mod bus (vintage rogues can't do that).

I can understand you are focused on vintage sound and drifts, but don't go overboard on their reputation. My point is that the LP has plenty of good vintage to offer (including drifts), and then some, in a modern package with years of reliable worry and maintenance free operation.

Actually, the video you linked to was the one I was referring to. Upon revisiting it closely a couple of times, I find only the very first patch sounds different and real 'moog vintage' (and much better I must say). Others are so similar, with advantage LP in one case. That's so far as one can tell from a small web video. Anyone will tell you... real live Moogs, vintage or otherwise don't sound like YouTube.

mayidunk · Post by **mayidunk** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:40 am

To attempt to answer his original question, I don't believe that the auto-tune feature is on all the time. I believe that it's something that you run every once in a while, or as often as needed, in order to keep the oscillators in concert tune, and in tune with each other. Once run, I believe that you can then adjust the oscillators' pitch to get them slightly off.

I like Portamental's idea! If the LFO has a really slow cycle time, you could very slightly modulate one of the oscillators pitch to waver up and down very, very slowly in order to get that drifty goodness.

Welcome to the forum!

tonnu · Post by **tonnu** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:04 am

thanks for all the hearty welcome and the encouragement

it seems i would not be able to escape the GAS afterall

subtle modulation of the pitch seems to be the way to do it, but the thing is with only 1 LFO, that will not leave me an onboard LFO to do other stuff

that said, i do have a modular and i can an LFO or two into the pitch CV (one of the thing that makes the LP interesting to me are the CV inputs!)

also, on the auto-tune thing, i read in the manual and there is an option to turn it 'off'. that's why i figured that the default state is 'on'.

@portamental: yes i agree to your comments on the video. besides the very first patch, the rest sounds very similar. i also think on some bass patches, the LP is more 'full'. from that demo, i think the filter on the LP is more musical than the rogue.

@ericK: boonjong is quite a common thai name

thanks to all the suggestions. come this weekend, i will probably be a proud owner of the LP. cheers!

Sir Nose · Post by **Sir Nose** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:23 am

If you have a modular it may be worth the expense to get an LP with the CV out modification. I don't know if the store will have one, but they may be able to order it for you. They are available online, new with CV mod.

edit: It looks like a new LP with the CV out mod is currently an exclusive through Sweetwater www.sweetwater.com They are calling it the "Solar Edition"
The mod can be done at the factory to any LP, but being from overseas it may be difficult for you to get the mod done.

tonnu · Post by **tonnu** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:57 pm

got the LP at last!

the sound is indeed very, very fat and substantial
worlds apart from my p08 which is really a good thing

not that vintage, but slap on modulating delay, and you're half way there!

thanks a lot guys

mayidunk · Post by **mayidunk** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:04 pm

Hope you slept good last night...

Congratulations!

Portamental · Post by **Portamental** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:36 pm

Congrats. You will like it. The patches that came with the LP are designed to offer a wide array of sounds, not that many of them vintage in the lot. In time, you'll program your own vintage bank and you'll see the LP can sound vintage. BTW, you can use (easy to find online) the user manuals for the Rogue, Prodigy, Micromoog, minimoog and try their patches. Some terms used are different, but an Osc is still and Osc and the low-pass filter still works the same.

Amos · Post by **Amos** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:41 pm

LP Stage II has intentionally "not-vintage" sounds in the factory presets. If you are new to the LP and are looking for vintage sounds, you might prefer the LP Tribute Edition sound set:
http://www.moogmusic.com/software/LP_TE ... sounds.zip

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:27 pm

Come to think of it, you might can simulate some oscillator drift by using the filter envelope to the pitch of Osc 2 to mimic a slow detune.

peterkadar · Post by **peterkadar** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:56 am

Congrats on the Phatty! They are great instruments.

I used to have 2 micromoogs and a prodigy. I sold them years ago because they were starting to die on me and I really wasn't using them. This was before I knew a good synth tech.

In any case, once I got my LP, I didn't find myself regretting getting rid of my old synths.

They're really something. Check out the Tribute Edition soundbank Amos mentioned.

Have fun in Thailand. Right now it's about -12 up here in Toronto w/o the wind chill...