LP and Logic - How to deal with astray MIDI commands?

[KingBarbarossa]

my lp causes logic pro 8 to activate "mute" on the audio channel where i am recording as soon as i turn the knob of osc1.
there are more oddities, but how do i get this right?

if i tweak the lp while playing it sets off all kinds of things in logic like activating random key commands.

any help would be appreciated...

[synthetic]

That's very odd. You can create a MIDI filter in the Environment. You can also see a MIDI monitor there, so you can figure out what messages are causing Logic to wig out.

[rachel]

Doesn' t seem to happen here. I use Logic 6.3.4 and my LP is the controller.


rachel

[Jazzpunk]

Happens here (on both Logic 7 and Logic 8 ). Haven't taken the time yet to sort it out though.

[robles]

Obviously the midi controller number of OSC1 is the same as the mute on/off for Logic. A simple answer, since this is on an audio track, is to switch off the midi input on that track. Hopefully Logic has a quick way to to that. I know Cubase does.

[KingBarbarossa]

robles: i don't know where to turn it off, does anybody know?

however, i would like to record the midi data as well at some point without a ghost remote controlling logic.

i also don't know how to setup a midi filter as synthetic suggested.
i would rather like to know first what exactly is happening here and why, and then find a solution to restore all functionality to a default level in which everything works as it should before undergoing extensive experiments...

[Jazzpunk]

If you change the key commands in Logic (check the manual if you don't know how to do this) that are conflicting with the messages being sent from the Phatty you'll be good to go.

[KingBarbarossa]

If you change the key commands in Logic (check the manual if you don't know how to do this) that are conflicting with the messages being sent from the Phatty you'll be good to go.

thank you!
i will try this as soon as i find time...

[Jazzpunk]

Doesn' t seem to happen here. I use Logic 6.3.4 and my LP is the controller.


rachel

Rachel, I am curious as to how it is not happening on your system.

Say for example, I have a track selected in Logic. I then start tweaking the Oscillator knob on the Phatty. The knob sends CC #9 to Logic which then mutes the track.

This doesn't happen in version 6?

[Jazzpunk]

If you change the key commands in Logic (check the manual if you don't know how to do this) that are conflicting with the messages being sent from the Phatty you'll be good to go.

thank you!
i will try this as soon as i find time...

Hi King,
So I was wrong about the above advice!

It appears that several of the CC commands received by Logic are 'hardwired' and cannot be changed (REALLY hoping I am wrong about this!).

Open your environment in Logic (Apple+8 ) and you will see the 'Input Monitor'. Start tweaking the Oscillator knob on the Phatty and you will see Logic is receiving cc #9. The problem with this is that when you have an audio track selected, sending cc #9 will cause Logic to mute that audio track. So far I have not found a way to go in and change this behavior.

Easiest work around is to select a channel you are not recording on in the arrange window. Kind of a 'dummy' track to take the hit. This is a major PITA though!

Another option is to set up a transformer in the environment that will block the offending cc notes from being sent to the sequencer. This was nicely illustrated for me over on the LPH forum and you can view it here;

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=16778

Problem with that method however is that you can no longer record those blocked messages into Logic (say you want to record some automated mutes for example from another controller on cc #9!).

And so the love/hate relationship with Logic continues...

[rachel]

Doesn' t seem to happen here. I use Logic 6.3.4 and my LP is the controller.


rachel

Rachel, I am curious as to how it is not happening on your system.

Say for example, I have a track selected in Logic. I then start tweaking the Oscillator knob on the Phatty. The knob sends CC #9 to Logic which then mutes the track.

This doesn't happen in version 6?

It doesn't seem to. I have a BCF2000 in Logic Control mode and I am using the phatty
as my keyboard controller. When I turn the various knobs on the phatty, I am not seeing
any of the problems - maybe the BCF does something to stop this? In any case, I have
the Tribute edition with the latest Firmware on it.

Have a look in your clicks & ports environment page and see if you have a transformer
in place somewhere, or an environment page imported from another project. Does it still
do it with a factory Autoload environment?


rachel

[Jazzpunk]

So looks like there are only two culprits; the Oscillator knob when Osc 1 'wave' is selected (mutes track) and the Modulation knob when LFO rate is selected (solos track).

Seems the transformer to kill the cc's before they hit the sequencer is an easy fix (unless of course you want to record the automation from either of those two parameters!).

[robles]

I still say there has to be some drop down box on the audio track itself for selecting midi inputs. I use Cubase and while I haven't checked the audio tracks, I do know for fact that each midi track has a drop down box for selecting which midi port it will receive data in from. You can choose All Inputs, one particular input from your listed midi inputs, or None.

I'll try to check later on the audio tracks, but I can't imagine that Logic would not have some simple way of deciding what midi input to allow for each individual track.

[rachel]

In fact it is exactly what you do.

Set Local Control off on your LP.
Set Omni Off.
Set MIDI Channels Xmit/rcv to channel 1 for both.

In Logic (I have an AMT-8 ) I have my LP set on Port 5. The MIDI channel for Port 5
should be set to 1 (not ALL).


Then your LP will only listen on Port 5 for channel 1 events, not for all Ports.


rachel

[rachel]

BTW,
I am a stickler for the kinds of MIDI interface I use when doing CC/Sysex/NRPN/Clocks.

A lot of people have the cheap MidiMan 4x4 or 8x8 interfaces. I have found these
to be next to useless for any application that requires you to send controllers or
MIDI sysex/Clocks or System data to more than one synth at a time.

If you've got one of these boxes and you want to do complex operations using a
MIDI stack, get a box that has some smarts in it, like a MOTU AV, Edirol 5x5 or 8x8 or
an AMT-8/Unitor. The reason is, the MidiMan boxes are basically just glorified
MIDI Thru ports and don't do any filtering, routing or data control of any kind.

I had the MM 4x4 and could not successfully send MIDI clocks to more than one instrument
connected. I was send controllers and they would go to the wrong synth or not turn
up at all.


I tried a few tests the other night with my LP and turning the OSC knobs did indeed
send controllers about the place and I could see them in my Logic Midi monitor,
but they only affected the LP. I then changed tracks to my MKS 50 and tried to
mess it up by banging on the LP's controls but the MKS didn't care. I also attached
my PG-300 (for the MKS) and sent lots of controllers and NRPN's with that,
once again nothing cared. This tells me that my MIDI routing is correct. Only the
things I am wanting to be affected do so. I also tried it with my Drumstation,
since every knob sends a CC - once again, I was unable to get it to misdirect
to another synth unintentionally.

I suspect that if you're trying to turn a knob on the LP and it's doing weird control
messages to Logic and turning mutes on and off and so forth, I would put it down
to a MIDI interface that doesn't do proper routing or filtering.


rachel