Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.13

Everything Sub.
Sofasizer
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:35 pm

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by Sofasizer » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:08 pm

Sofasizer wrote:
paul_sub37 wrote:
Sofasizer wrote:I have issue with the FILTER CUTOFF knob aswell when the Editor is open
Following Amos's advice, I set the knob mode to absolute instead of relative and the knobs are back in sync for me again, so might be worth checking that with your issue too.
mine was set to Absolute already, its only the filter cutoff thats making problems the rest works!
turns out it wasnt the software... the knob is borked! :oops: /facedesk

milwel traamen
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:53 pm

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by milwel traamen » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:21 pm

Maybe i'm doing it wrong. But I thought the editor also could be used as a vst instrument in cubase. It seems the editor is saved as vst effect. So I can use it on audiotracks. But can't seems to find how to make it an instrument. Is there any way to do this? Running OSX yosemite. Thanks in advance.
Moog sub 37. OSX 10.11.1 I7 4,5ghz quad core 32gb ram 64bit. Cubase 8.5 pro. Motu 16A. Motu midi expres XT. Novation sl49 mkII.

paul_sub37
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Location: Wales,UK

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by paul_sub37 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:44 pm

I don't use cubase, but in ableton live it works as an effect too - it sits after an "external instrument" instrument.
My Sub 37 Patches - Sub 37 + Mother 32 + UR-44 + OS X 10.11/Ableton Live/Logic Pro X + Push 2

milwel traamen
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:53 pm

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by milwel traamen » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:59 pm

paul_sub37 wrote:I don't use cubase, but in ableton live it works as an effect too - it sits after an "external instrument" instrument.
A I see. It does work but still need to find out how I can use it to automate midi with it as it is an effect plugin. Do you know how to do this in ableton?

Edit: It doesnt transmit midi data to the sub37 out. So even if I have the sub37 miditrack on record (it does send notes) it doesnt record. It transmits midi data from the sub37 and I can record it, but not from the plugin. But the plugin can control it. Kinda weird.

Standalone or plugin both will not send midi out data. Connected via usb.
Moog sub 37. OSX 10.11.1 I7 4,5ghz quad core 32gb ram 64bit. Cubase 8.5 pro. Motu 16A. Motu midi expres XT. Novation sl49 mkII.

paul_sub37
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:57 pm
Location: Wales,UK

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by paul_sub37 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:48 am

A I see. It does work but still need to find out how I can use it to automate midi with it as it is an effect plugin. Do you know how to do this in ableton?
- add an external instrument device to a track
- set "midi to" to "moog Sub 37"
- set "audio from" to desired audio interface
- add the sub 37 editor after the external instrument device (see pic 1)
- record the notes in from the sub 37 as normal
- enable automation recording
- click on overdub and play back clip if not already playing
- move controls in the sub 37 editor
- these are recorded to envelopes in ableton
- as they're recorded from the editor, the editor shows as the device and the actual parameter name shows in the control chooser (see pic 2)
- the recorded changes are reflected by knob movements in the editor
- using midi monitor, can see that it is sending out non-registered parameter values to the sub 37 via midi (see pic 3)
- there's an NRPN table in the back of the sub 37 manual - this shows MSB 3 LSB 115 is filter cutoff as expected

note: if changes are made on the hardware rather than in the editor, they get recorded as generic "MIDI Ctrl" device envelopes as CCs- eg cc 21 for resonance - and these changes are not reflected in the editor as they are sent directly from ableton to the source, which is the hardware synth. the changes do still play on the synth though.

Pic 1 - Setup
setup.gif
Pic 2 - envelope recording
envelope.gif
Pic 3 - midi monitor
midi_monitor.gif
My Sub 37 Patches - Sub 37 + Mother 32 + UR-44 + OS X 10.11/Ableton Live/Logic Pro X + Push 2

milwel traamen
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:53 pm

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by milwel traamen » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:11 am

Really weird. I tried in cubase 8.5
Midilane has sub37 as midi in and output, midichannel 1 in and out
Editor also has sub37 as midi in and output (standard settings), Midi channel 1 in and out

- Sub37 hardware to ---> cubase records just fine. move the filter and it records the movement
- Sub37 hardware to plugin --> plugin reacts to input. When you move the know on sub37 (hardware) You see the dials move on the editor
- Sub37 editor/plugin --> Sub37 hardware. Sub37 reacts to editor. If I move the filterknob it reacts. So sound is manipulated
- Sub37 editor to cubase nothing happens. No midi/cc input?
Moog sub 37. OSX 10.11.1 I7 4,5ghz quad core 32gb ram 64bit. Cubase 8.5 pro. Motu 16A. Motu midi expres XT. Novation sl49 mkII.

paul_sub37
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:57 pm
Location: Wales,UK

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by paul_sub37 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:54 am

if it were in ableton, I'd be looking at effect automation recording issues - If you replace the sub 37 editor with a different effect, can you automate that with the way you have cubase setup?
My Sub 37 Patches - Sub 37 + Mother 32 + UR-44 + OS X 10.11/Ableton Live/Logic Pro X + Push 2

milwel traamen
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:53 pm

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by milwel traamen » Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:04 am

paul_sub37 wrote:if it were in ableton, I'd be looking at effect automation recording issues - If you replace the sub 37 editor with a different effect, can you automate that with the way you have cubase setup?
Hmm I guess this is not what i'm used to. Just using a midilane to record. Now it has to be recorded in an audio lane as vst effect. Will try to figure out how I can make this work. Thanks again Paul!

More weird behaviour.
When i'm tring to change a preset from the preset browser preset the first two presets load. After the third it will go back to the first preset. It looks like a midi loop. But all my other synths work well with those settings so can'figure out what is wrong. I tried to hook it up via midi instead of usb. No luck either. Anybody here using cubase and got automation working?
Moog sub 37. OSX 10.11.1 I7 4,5ghz quad core 32gb ram 64bit. Cubase 8.5 pro. Motu 16A. Motu midi expres XT. Novation sl49 mkII.

tendingtropic
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:05 am

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by tendingtropic » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:08 am

This is probably a stupid question: but where can I download this editor? when is the official release?

jaycoffman
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:20 pm

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by jaycoffman » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:41 pm

Hey Guys,

Using Ableton here and I too wasn't expecting an effects plugin. I thought the audio/midi routing would be done in the Sub 37 Editor VST plugin itself. Do you think we can expect (or is it possible ) to record automation into Ableton's Envelopes > Sub 37 Editor automation lane from the hardware? Right now, the hardware records to the MIDI Control (all the CCs) automation lane. It's a little confusing to have two automation lanes and I'd love to have the ease of seeing "Filter Cutoff" as opposed to "CC19" and having to switch between lanes. It's interesting that the hardware knob movements are reflected in the plugin, but won't record automation via knob in the plugin... but when I use the mouse I can record automation into the Sub 37 Editor automation lane.

Maybe I need to change my workflow. How are you guys getting along with it? I'm curious if my MIDI routing is correct. Going to play around some more. Thanks!
Mac OSX 10.10.5 (64-Bit) | Ableton Live 9.5 (64-Bit) | VST / AU | Sub37 + MF-104
Jay Coffman | [email protected]

paul_sub37
Posts: 186
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Location: Wales,UK

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by paul_sub37 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:51 pm

tendingtropic wrote:This is probably a stupid question: but where can I download this editor? when is the official release?
http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.ph ... 75#p148894
Do you think we can expect (or is it possible ) to record automation into Ableton's Envelopes > Sub 37 Editor automation lane from the hardware?
Hi Jay, I figure it's down to the source.

If I'm tweaking via the software editor, then ableton records those changes as being from the editor with all the nice parameter names, and on playback it gets sent to the editor and shows knob movements. The editor sends the changes to the synth, not ableton.

If I'm recording changes from the hardware, then the synth is sending MIDI CCs to ableton, which is recording them, and on playback it is sending those same MIDI CCs back to the source - ie the hardware synth.

Like you, I think it would be great to have it all consolidated to the editor device - but really not sure if that's possible given the signal chain.
My Sub 37 Patches - Sub 37 + Mother 32 + UR-44 + OS X 10.11/Ableton Live/Logic Pro X + Push 2

jaycoffman
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:20 pm

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by jaycoffman » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:04 pm

Like you, I think it would be great to have it all consolidated to the editor device - but really not sure if that's possible given the signal chain.
Just a curious thing that the plugin knobs reflect the hardware knobs movement, but don't relay the parameter changes to the Sub 37's automation lane. Definitely seems like a question of source, like you say, but I just wonder why my mouse induced knob movements on the plugin work, but the hardware knobs, which in turn are moving the plugin knobs, don't record automation in the same way.
Mac OSX 10.10.5 (64-Bit) | Ableton Live 9.5 (64-Bit) | VST / AU | Sub37 + MF-104
Jay Coffman | [email protected]

paul_sub37
Posts: 186
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Location: Wales,UK

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by paul_sub37 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:26 pm

I suspect it's simply that the editor is connected to the sub 37 directly.

In the setup section of the editor it does say that it's connected to the sub 37 and not that it's connected to ableton live.

So when you move a knob on the hardware, the direct connection to the editor reflects this - but the sub 37 is sending midi ccs to ableton too, which are recorded but played back to the synth as ccs given the editor wasn't in the loop as far as ableton is concerned.

I guess it all comes down to avoiding midi loops/duplication of control change information. Amos mentioned something about filtering for midi loops in a future relase, so maybe that will provide a solution.
My Sub 37 Patches - Sub 37 + Mother 32 + UR-44 + OS X 10.11/Ableton Live/Logic Pro X + Push 2

jaycoffman
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:20 pm

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by jaycoffman » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:29 pm

paul_sub37 wrote:I suspect it's simply that the editor is connected to the sub 37 directly.

In the setup section of the editor it does say that it's connected to the sub 37 and not that it's connected to ableton live.

So when you move a knob on the hardware, the direct connection to the editor reflects this - but the sub 37 is sending midi ccs to ableton too, which are recorded but played back to the synth as ccs given the editor wasn't in the loop as far as ableton is concerned.

I guess it all comes down to avoiding midi loops/duplication of control change information. Amos mentioned something about filtering for midi loops in a future relase, so maybe that will provide a solution.
Ah, yea I see what you're saying. Thanks for taking the time to spell it out. Each step of the process has been a leap in functionality... from 1.1 firmware to the editor. Totally usable and all, but look forward to future refinements!
Mac OSX 10.10.5 (64-Bit) | Ableton Live 9.5 (64-Bit) | VST / AU | Sub37 + MF-104
Jay Coffman | [email protected]

Istvan
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Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:52 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Sub 37 pre-release Editor 0.9.25 + firmware version 1.1.

Post by Istvan » Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:13 pm

Finally got some time and loaded the editor on Windows 10 with no issues at all. Haven't had much chance to delve into it, but it's very nice in looks and functionality. No usage on the VST mode yet, just been exploring the standalone mode. Very nice work Amos!

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