Mod 2 led issue

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pedrofloyd
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:09 am

Mod 2 led issue

Post by pedrofloyd » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:12 pm

Hi, I have a strange issue about the Mod2 on my sub37.
Setting for instance the system like this:
Mod 2 source: F.EG/PGM
MOD 2 dest: EG Time/PGM
PGM SRC: PRESSURE
PGM DST: OSC 1 LEVEL
the LFO 2 RATE led light is proportional to the keypad pressure as expected. the problem is that when you release the key, the light remains on for about 2 seconds. this issue doesn't happen on Mod 1 (releasing the key the led is turned off immediately).
Is there someone who noted this one?
Greetings from Italy
Hi,
here are some infos:
OS: windows 7 64 bits and XP SP3
notebooks: thoshiba and Dell both dual core
Audio interface: Echo firewire

OS (inc. 32/64 bit), DAWs, moog equipment and audio interfaces used in your setup.

paul_sub37
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:57 pm
Location: Wales,UK

Re: Mod 2 led issue

Post by paul_sub37 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:31 pm

I get exactly the same behaviour on mine - with mod 1 and 2 set the same as your note (and everything else the same inc mod wheel off), mod 2 holds a dim led for a couple of seconds, mod 1's led goes off instantly.
My Sub 37 Patches - Sub 37 + Mother 32 + UR-44 + OS X 10.11/Ableton Live/Logic Pro X + Push 2

DrJustice
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Mod 2 led issue

Post by DrJustice » Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:31 pm

The same thing happens here. Using firmware 1.1. The mod 2 LED intensity seems to come earlier than the mod1 LED with increasing pressure, then on release the LED gets stuck at ca. half intensity for a couple of seconds. The modulation itself works fine, so it's just the LED.

While testing (using the init patch) I stumbled upon a couple of other issues:

1 - Continuing from the setting posted by pedrofloyd, I set the mod 2 source to keyboard tracking. When playing the C closest to the sequencer step 16 button, the mod 2 LED goes off. It's lit for other notes and the modulation itself works.

2 - Continuing from the setting posted by pedrofloyd, I set the mod 1 source to keyboard tracking. This does not work as for mod 2. Instead two things happen:
- The mod 1 LED goes dark.
- The modulation does not work. Working the mod 1 amount control, It seems as if the mod signal is very weak and offset/inverted. The modulations works and the destination setting does not affect the LED anomaly.

Edit: Found one more:

3 - Continuing again. Setting both mod 1 and 2 sources to velocity, the mod 1 LED will be unlit at the zero/lowest velocity and fade up to full with increasing velocity, while the mod 2 LED stays lit at half intensity even for zero/lowest velocity and fades up to full with increasing velocity.

Edit: ok, there's a pattern:

4 - Continuing again. Setting both mod 1 and 2 sources to filter, the mod 1 LED will be unlit at the zero/lowest anv level and fade up to full with increasing level, while the mod 2 LED stays lit at half intensity even for zero/lowest env level and fades up to full with increasing level.

5 - Same as 4 but with sine lfo as the source

So there's a pattern where the mod 2 LED starts at half intensity without a fade in from unlit with the increasing mod signal. Then there's the hang time for pressure, the disappearing LED when playing C near the sequencer step 16 button and the mod 1 keyboard tracking not working right.

Can anyone check for some of those?

Leviathant
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:50 pm

Re: Mod 2 led issue

Post by Leviathant » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:17 am

If I recall correctly, one of the LEDs is voltage controlled, but the other is digitally controlled, because they simply ran out of voltage controllable output within the hardware.

While the actual modulation will function as expected, the indication of what's going on is sometimes a little bit off.

DrJustice
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Mod 2 led issue

Post by DrJustice » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:43 am

That's unusual, do you have a reference?

Anyway, it doesn't explain why the MOD 2 LED hangs on for a couple of seconds with pressure or why it goes dark when playing middle C with keyboard tracking.

There's also the non functioning MOD 1 keyboard tracking (at least in my case), but that not a LED problem.

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Rufus the Dog
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:38 am

Re: Mod 2 led issue

Post by Rufus the Dog » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:12 pm

Leviathant wrote:If I recall correctly, one of the LEDs is voltage controlled, but the other is digitally controlled, because they simply ran out of voltage controllable output within the hardware.

While the actual modulation will function as expected, the indication of what's going on is sometimes a little bit off.
That is how I remember it too. I think it was a direct quote from Amos. It'll be in the phatty forum someplace


R.

DrJustice
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Mod 2 led issue

Post by DrJustice » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:39 pm

Found it - Here is the thread from Gearslutz.

And while searching I found two related threads in this forum, here and here.

I'm still interested in hearing if anybody is having, or not having, the same issues as me in tests 1and 2 in my first posting.

Sorry for hijacking your thread pedrofloyd... :oops:

pedrofloyd
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:09 am

Re: Mod 2 led issue

Post by pedrofloyd » Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:33 pm

DrJustice wrote:Found it - Here is the thread from Gearslutz.

And while searching I found two related threads in this forum, here and here.
g, or not having, the same issues as me in tests 1and 2 in my first posting.
I'm still interested in hearing if anybody is havin

Sorry for hijacking your thread pedrofloyd... :oops:
Test 1 and 2 with your same results.
No problems for hijcking the thread :D
Hi,
here are some infos:
OS: windows 7 64 bits and XP SP3
notebooks: thoshiba and Dell both dual core
Audio interface: Echo firewire

OS (inc. 32/64 bit), DAWs, moog equipment and audio interfaces used in your setup.

DrJustice
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Mod 2 led issue

Post by DrJustice » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:58 am

^ Thanks!

It looks like we have uncovered 3 issues then:

- Mod 2 LED hanging on for 2 secs after key release when pressure is the source.
- Mod 2 LED going dark on playing the C closest to the sequencer step 16 button when keyboard tracking is the source.
- Mod 1 not working when keyboard tracking is the source, giving a weak and inverted signal.

I'm not sure if these should be submitted to tech support or if Moog picks it up here (?)

pedrofloyd
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:09 am

Re: Mod 2 led issue

Post by pedrofloyd » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:21 pm

DrJustice wrote:^ Thanks!

It looks like we have uncovered 3 issues then:

- Mod 2 LED hanging on for 2 secs after key release when pressure is the source.
- Mod 2 LED going dark on playing the C closest to the sequencer step 16 button when keyboard tracking is the source.
- Mod 1 not working when keyboard tracking is the source, giving a weak and inverted signal.

I'm not sure if these should be submitted to tech support or if Moog picks it up here (?)
I submitted the issues to the tech support one hour ago
Hi,
here are some infos:
OS: windows 7 64 bits and XP SP3
notebooks: thoshiba and Dell both dual core
Audio interface: Echo firewire

OS (inc. 32/64 bit), DAWs, moog equipment and audio interfaces used in your setup.

DrJustice
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Mod 2 led issue

Post by DrJustice » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:25 am

^ Cool pedro!

At the very least the KB tracking has to be fixed. Perhaps the good folks at Moog would like to drop by and let us know if these are on the to-do list for the next firmware update?

Amos
Posts: 2438
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Mod 2 led issue

Post by Amos » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:29 pm

DrJustice wrote: Perhaps the good folks at Moog would like to drop by and let us know if these are on the to-do list for the next firmware update?
- Mod 2 LED hanging on for 2 secs after key release when pressure is the source.
Fixed. It was indeed just an LED-dimming bug and did not affect the modulation itself.

- Mod 2 LED going dark on playing the C closest to the sequencer step 16 button when keyboard tracking is the source.
haven't looked at this, although that sounds like the fact that key tracking is bipolar and centered around that "C" = 0V.
This may not in itself be a bug, but I'll make sure there isn't something funny going on.


- Mod 1 not working when keyboard tracking is the source, giving a weak and inverted signal.
have not fixed this but I'll make it a priority to be sure it's correct by the time of official firmware release.

The official firmware release will be numbered 1.2.0 and I'll do my best to make sure it has no egregious bugs by the time it ships.
I always appreciate these good reports with clear details to reproduce the behavior; it makes it much faster to find and fix any underlying issues.

Thanks!

Amos

DrJustice
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Mod 2 led issue

Post by DrJustice » Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:34 pm

That's great to hear, Amos!

Thanks for being on the ball :D

DrJustice
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Mod 2 led issue

Post by DrJustice » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:37 pm

The Cn = 0V theory sounds plausible.

I just did some more testing though, this time using mod 1 with keyboard tracking as the source. Its LED lights up at the B above (the next to highest key) quite brightly and increases in intensity for notes above that. However, the mod 1 LED does not light up for notes below the C in question, like the mod 2 LED does. That is to say, the behaviour of the mod 1 and mod 2 LEDs aren't consistent. AFAIK mod1 uses a DA to control the LED intensity and mod 2 uses PWM(?), which explains the differences in intensity, but I assume that both should follow the same pattern for the positive and negative phases of the keyboard tracking signal. I hope this snippet of info may be of help when looking into the LED issues.

DrJustice
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Mod 2 led issue

Post by DrJustice » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:26 pm

A couple of possible bugettes in the MOD N DEST assignment:

- When holding down MOD X DST and turning the filter cutoff knob, the destination becomes RTCHT CT.
- When holding down MOD X DST and turning the MOD X AMT knob, the destination becomes MOD X AMT.

Other than this, all assignments I've tried are logical and consistent, w.r.t. the hardwired MOD destinations and the ones selectable by the MOD X DST button.

P.S. I posted this here since this thread already gathers the MOD bugs. Perhaps the forum should have a (a sticky?) general issues/bugs -thread so that bug reports don't gets buried?

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