Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

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sencha
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Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by sencha » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:48 pm

Sometimes some stuck notes appear while the arpeggiator is running, especially when I'm changing the settings during the play (the cutoff frequency for instance), suddenly the arp seems to stop for a millisecond and miss a note.

I use the arp without any midi connection, just the synth alone.
It's a Little Phatty II (2009) with cv out mod and the latest OS is installed.

Did anyone else notice the same problem ?
Thanks.

autoy
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Re: Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by autoy » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:35 pm

Yep, noticed this too with the latest firmware. Happens from time to time.

sencha
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Re: Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by sencha » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:18 pm

Thanks, I'm reassured that my LP is not broken !
I hope this bug will be fixed in a future firmware update because this is pretty annoying when it happens. :?

denoiser
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Re: Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by denoiser » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:02 pm

Same thing happens to mine. I opened a topic related to the issue several months ago (http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21607&hilit=missing+notes).

Sadly, I doubt Moog will fix this issue. The only hope is that Moog open sources the Phatty OS.

There is a workaround, however. If you sync the arpeggiator to midi clock works much better, not 100% perfect although.

BorisYeltsin
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Re: Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by BorisYeltsin » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:31 pm

denoiser wrote:Sadly, I doubt Moog will fix this issue. The only hope is that Moog open sources the Phatty OS.


Why won't Moog fix this? Shouldn't they fix their product so that it does work?

denoiser
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Re: Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by denoiser » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:44 pm

BorisYeltsin wrote:Why won't Moog fix this? Shouldn't they fix their product so that it does work?


Well, I don't know if they will or will not. But, based on the fact that the issue has been around for a very long time and no firmware update has addressed it successfully, I seriously doubt they will fix it now that the LP is discontinued.

However, I fully agree with you. They should have fixed it.
Last edited by denoiser on Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BorisYeltsin
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Re: Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by BorisYeltsin » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:35 pm

denoiser wrote:
BorisYeltsin wrote:Why won't Moog fix this? Shouldn't they fix their product so that it does work?


Well, I don't know if they will or will not not. But, based on the fact that the issue has been around for a very long time and no firmware update has addressed it successfully, I seriously doubt they will fix it now that the LP is discontinued.

However, I fully agree with you. They should have fixed it.


If that's the case, it's no good. I think.

A company should make sure that their products are working as supposed to. A company shouldn't address and fix faults only while the product's selling, and then abandon it. That's not a good example for later products either. Both customers and potential customers will take notice of it, and they'll be skeptical in the future...

Roland, as an example, knows this, keeping most of their products up to date with drivers for latest OS's and more, even many years after the products was discontinued. At least that's what I've experienced.

I had an M-Audio audio interface once. M-Audio suddenly discontinued driver updates for that interface, making it useless with Win 7. So I'll never buy a M-Audio product again, (unless they release something really groundbreaking and original). It's that simple for me.

I've read things about Dave Smith-products having faults that DS don't care to address in firmware updates, and that firmware updates are not sure to be released at all by DS. Stuff like that makes me skeptical to buy any of DS's products.

So, if there in fact are faults with LP, that can be fixed with a firmware update, I think Moog should fix it, or at least explain why they don't.

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by stiiiiiiive » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:46 pm

I understand your point. But..

I don't know for M-Audio, but DSI and Moog are small companies. When a small company increase its catalogue, arrives a time when frameworks or supply chains or whatever is not sufficient to ensure the build of all the models. It's all the same for software: keeping an OS up to date costs money.

Roland has enough $ for keeping people working on such old model's OS. Plus they have the $ for putting many people on one instrument's development. Moog, on the contrary, must choose which models/OS they should maintain or not.

In a certain extent, I prefer having Little Phattys 98% functional in the nature and new models than Moog keeping perfecting the LP's OS and not developing anuthing new. Plus they have to do so for staying in the race.

Maybe you already know that; what do you think?...

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Re: Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by BorisYeltsin » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:11 pm

stiiiiiiive wrote:I don't know for M-Audio, but DSI and Moog are small companies.

Maybe you already know that; what do you think?...


I think that any serious product making company should make sure that all their products work the way they're supposed to. That's the least a consumer should be able to expect when buying products, especially in the price ranges we are talking about here.

If there was something wrong with the arp-function on the 37, I wouldn't like it and the product wouldn't have been as described by the producer when I bought it.

So if a company advertises with "this and that" for a product, that company must be able to live up to what they've claimed that they're product is capable of.

Abandoning future driver updates is a bit different. I would weigh the price and life expectancy of a product up against how long a company should provide drivers for their product. The M-Audio interface lasted around three years, before M-Audio made it useless by not providing 64 bit driver update. When buying an audio interface, one usually expects it to last a bit more than three years.

Anyway, providing drivers and support for the future is a winner for keeping customers happy. That's why I always buy Roland-products, because I know they work, now and in the future.

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breun
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Re: Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by breun » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:00 pm

BorisYeltsin wrote:The M-Audio interface lasted around three years, before M-Audio made it useless by not providing 64 bit driver update.


I presume M-Audio didn't provide a 64 bit driver at the time you bought the interface either. You made the choice to replace your computer's 32 bit operating system with a 64 bit one, that wasn't forced on you by your audio interface vendor. They could have chosen to spend some time and money developing a 64 bit driver, but choosing not to didn't suddenly make the unit you already owned useless.

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breun
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Re: Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by breun » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:02 pm

BorisYeltsin wrote:That's why I always buy Roland-products, because I know they work, now and in the future.


Well, I'm pretty certain they are no longer selling HPF sliders to fix my Juno-106...

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Re: Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by BorisYeltsin » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:11 pm

breun wrote:
BorisYeltsin wrote:The M-Audio interface lasted around three years, before M-Audio made it useless by not providing 64 bit driver update.


I presume M-Audio didn't provide a 64 bit driver at the time you bought the interface either. You made the choice to replace your computer's 32 bit operating system with a 64 bit one, that wasn't forced on you by your audio interface vendor. They could have chosen to spend some time and money developing a 64 bit driver, but choosing not to didn't suddenly make the unit you already owned useless.


Off all the gear I have and had back then, M-Audio were the only one who didn't take the effort to supply it's customers with 64 bit drivers. Every other manufacturer came up with 64 bit drivers, for all kinds of stuff.
It must have been fun for the ones who bought the same interface right before 64 bit win was released. If they wanted to use their interface, they could not switch to 64 bit, which I believe is a vital upgrade from a 32 bit OS.

In the end, it's all about how companies treat their customers.

For a replacement HPF-slider for your Juno 106: Someone else are making these today. If you're having trouble finding one, I'll be happy to provide you with web directions. Also, the 106 is at least 26 years old, and as mentioned I don't expect any manufacturer to support their products indefinitely. Juno 106 was also one of few really bad product from Roland, with their voice-chips dying after some time. I've never had a Juno 106, so I've no experience with it, and this was many years ago, before I even played synth. Today something like that would have been unheard of.

If you're OK with buying products that don't work as advertised, fine by me. I don't though. And when paying $$$$, one should at least expect basic functions as an arp to work flawlessly. I don't know if that's actually the case here with Moog, so all I'm writing is in general terms.

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breun
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Re: Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by breun » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:01 am

BorisYeltsin wrote:If you're OK with buying products that don't work as advertised, fine by me.


I'm not, but I was mainly arguing that your M-Audio example is a different case, because that was never advertised as working on a 64 bit OS.

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by stiiiiiiive » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:11 am

BorisYeltsin wrote:In the end, it's all about how companies treat their customers.

I don't agree. As said before, I think it is sometimes a hard choice for keeping the activity up, for keeping the brand in the race. In matter of industry, choices are sometimes compromises. And compromise mean disapointment; otherwise it's anot a compromise...

BorisYeltsin wrote:For a replacement HPF-slider for your Juno 106: Someone else are making these today.

Someone else is not Roland. But different problem: Juno Sliders were probably not made by Roland themselves.

BorisYeltsin wrote:Also, the 106 is at least 26 years old, and as mentioned I don't expect any manufacturer to support their products indefinitely.

According to you, without even speaking of choices and compromises, how long should a company maintain their products?

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Re: Little Phatty arpeggiator + stuck notes

Post by BorisYeltsin » Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:44 am

stiiiiiiive wrote:According to you, without even speaking of choices and compromises, how long should a company maintain their products?


For as long as the customers find the product useful.
It's like a car: The car manufacturer can't just stop making spear parts. Doing that would make the car useless within a short and specific time-frame. Though, that's what some hardware-manufacturers do, making their products useless after some time, by not providing driver updates etc. Forcing customers to buy new products, even if the original products are excellent and can be used for many more years to come, if they just were provided with drivers. So, there goes more electronic waste to Africa, and more money out of consumers pocket.

Anyway, the actual discussion here is about a possible faulty arpeggiator on a Moog synth. Something that Moog haven't addressed and fixed, if it is in fact a real problem, (something it seems to be with several users reporting about the same problem). A fault like that is something that really should fixed and not excused in any way.

Makes one wonder; what's the deal? Smiling and promising functions and support when selling the product, only to sell something that wasn't 100% as advertised and then abandon it completely without taking responsibility to fix the issues?
It's not like addressing and fixing a faulty arp would put Moog into bankruptcy and crippling the company in a way so that it cannot focus on any other new product...

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