Gap on the left side of the control panel

Everything Phatty.
aisling
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:22 pm

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by aisling » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:32 am

mine has the gap also, would be interesting to hear what Moog has to say on the matter. :?

synthesis4all
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:34 pm

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by synthesis4all » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:24 am

Someone get this post and or the issues to Moog, maybe they can make adjustments/quality control to the next batch of units... I don't really want a unit with the left panel like this and or especially uneven keys... :shock: I'm really considering canceling my order, and waiting for their next synth...

I'm a design snob, and paying 1500 dollars for a partially used / poorly designed looking synth is kind of unappealing to me...

I hope they can make some changes, but if the past is any predictor of the future, which it usually is, it
looks like nothing will become of any changes because it appears the Sub Phatty had the same key issues....

"Sub Phatty keyboard assembly issue"
http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=20205

Moog Music
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by Moog Music » Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:30 pm

Regarding the left side panel: All Moog synthesizers are built with tolerances for manufacturing purposes, and so that they can be serviced quickly in the field. There is a small space on all Phatty synthesizer panels for this reason, however the particular LCD on the Sub 37 makes this tolerance much more obvious. In the case posted here, it appears that someone simply tightened the right side of the panel before the left. To fix this, simply loosen the two screws that line up with the presets buttons (there is one screw on the left wood panel and one on the right). Now, tighten the left screw so the panel fits tightly agains the wood, and then tighten the right screw. That should do it.


Regarding the keyboard: There is always going to be some slight variation in key height on a any key bed, but it should be imperceptible while playing. If you feel that the difference in key height on your key bed is more than subtle, please contact our service department immediately and we will address the issue.


Regarding firmware bugs: Most of the issues that users have identified have already been resolved in the latest firmware (v 1.0.1) update which is available on our website now.

You can download the latest Sub 37 firmware here:
http://www.moogmusic.com/products/phatt ... nloads-tab

We have another firmware (v 1.0.2) update in process which will be available next week. Remember, to be notified about firmware updates immediately register your Sub 37 at http://www.moogmusic.com. We’ve got some fun stuff coming soon!


Regarding bright LED’s: The brightness of the panel will be reduced in firmware update v1.0.2.
In a subsequent update we will add a brightness control which allows users to adjust the brightness level to their liking.

Thank you for all of your feedback regarding the Sub 37 Bob Moog Tribute Edition. We are listening. We are very excited that so many of you are getting your hands on what we feel is an amazing new artistic tool. Everyone at Moog appreciates your patience and support as we work on feature and function updates to maximize the flexibility of your instrument.

Stay tuned, there’s more firmware updates coming very soon.

-Your Friends at Moog

Phos4escence
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:23 pm

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by Phos4escence » Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:42 pm

Mine has the gap on both side and I can see the screw through the gap.. So tighten both sides?

User avatar
Voltor07
Posts: 5194
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 3:04 am
Location: Waukegan, IL USA
Contact:

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by Voltor07 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:51 pm

Wow, seriously, guys? The Sub 37 is a much better design than my old Little Phatty was...every other key was a couple mm off when I got it. The side panels were plastic until I replaced them with wood, and the plastic was really cheap. The wheels were never all that tight, either. The Sub 37 is the highest quality analog synthesizer in its price range I have seen yet. Your complaints about minor stuff really make you look like N00BS. Seriously, do you even analog?
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

User avatar
Poptones
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:27 pm
Location: Dortmund, Germany
Contact:

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by Poptones » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:32 pm

Voltor07 wrote:Wow, seriously, guys? The Sub 37 is a much better design than my old Little Phatty was...every other key was a couple mm off when I got it. The side panels were plastic until I replaced them with wood, and the plastic was really cheap. The wheels were never all that tight, either. The Sub 37 is the highest quality analog synthesizer in its price range I have seen yet. Your complaints about minor stuff really make you look like N00BS. Seriously, do you even analog?
To be clear: I didn't mean to start an overall rant about the Sub 37. I think it's an astonishing and intuitive instrument with great "inner qualities". But: especially in this price range, I think I can expect an even keyboard on a new instrument. I own other synths that belong to the same price range and don't have this issue. Compared to these, I simply feel that the difference in key height on my Sub 37 keyboard is more than subtle. I might as well ask you in what price range one can expect a new instrument to be in perfect condition. Again: I'm not talking about the Sub 37 as a whole. And with regard to the gaps next to the panel: This is just something that leaps out at someone, who's standing in front of the instrument. When I had a friend over yesterday, he was asking me immediately if this is supposed to be the way it is. So I'm sorry for pointing something out that appears to be obvious.
To you it might just be minor stuff, which is absolutely fine with me. Calling anyone a noob in this thread, though, is uncalled for. FWIW: I've been playing synths since 1993 and yes, I do analog. I just don't see how that is connected to anything in this thread.

No offense.
Beta Test Info:
macOS 10.12.6 | Ableton Live Suite 10 | plug-in format: AU | current Moog gear: MF-104M Analog Delay, Minitaur, Sub 37 Tribute Edition

User avatar
jido-genshi
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:05 pm
Location: Portland Oregon by way of Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by jido-genshi » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:48 pm

Voltor07 wrote:Wow, seriously, guys? The Sub 37 is a much better design than my old Little Phatty was...every other key was a couple mm off when I got it. The side panels were plastic until I replaced them with wood, and the plastic was really cheap. The wheels were never all that tight, either. The Sub 37 is the highest quality analog synthesizer in its price range I have seen yet. Your complaints about minor stuff really make you look like N00BS. Seriously, do you even analog?
Really Voltor07?

In my case, though I haven't yet received my Sub 37 so I can't attest to the actual quality yet, seeing the pictures of that gap from other users has had me a bit worried. Is it because I'm a NOOB? I doubt it, considering that I've been playing and owning synths since the mid-1970s; starting with the Arp Odyssey... and I've played just about all of them since then, from the Yamaha CS-80 when it first came out, to the original Roland Jupiters, to the Sequential Circuits Prophets, to even a Fairlight CMI II. So I expect quality! Especially from an American Manufacturer who stamps their synths "Handcrafted"... and that's not too much to ask.

Luckily, Moog seems to have responded here with a reasonable solution, so again, I'll have to wait until I receive mine to make a judgement, but to call people Noobs because of these legitimate issues shows that you are the Noob and don't know much about quality... at least, not by looking at the way you handled that Sub 37 in your unboxing video! :shock:
Last edited by jido-genshi on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

aisling
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:22 pm

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by aisling » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:53 pm

Voltor07 wrote: Your complaints about minor stuff really make you look like N00BS.
Yes, I am a noob, we all have to start sometime....I am also new to moog hardware, aside from it's sound and contribution to music over the last 30 years. I don't take offense to your comment!

User avatar
mico
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:29 am
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by mico » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:10 pm

Poptones wrote:Okay, here you go.

Image

Image
I have the same gap, but Moog's solution is simple enough.

It was noticeable, but in no way something that took away from my experience with the beast.
Moog Sub 37 (#0133), Ibanez M80M, & Doomy Bow
MF-102 • MF-103 • MF-105m • KE Kommander • MHI B:a (Germ. w/EQ mod) • Strymon Timeline
Previous: Model D, Taurus, Taurus III, Little Phatty SE II (Solar Edition w/CV Out mod), Sub Phatty

User avatar
CZ Rider
Posts: 586
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:13 am
Location: Southeastern, PA

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by CZ Rider » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:54 pm

Since Moog is listening:
My Korg PS-3100 has a similar gap on either side of the front panel, for clearance when servicing. Korg glued little pieces of black felt to the sides of the front panel so light would not show through the from back. Made it look finished and was an inexpensive solution.
1P Modular,Minimoog,VoyagerRME,CustomMinimoog,Prodigy,MG-1 TaurusII,Opus3,Rogue,Source,Liberation,Micromoog,1125S&H,
1130Perc.x2,1150Ribbonx2,Custom1150,1120Pedal,Songprod,CP-251,VX-351
VX-352,Etherwave,Synampx2,Lil'Phatty,Sonic Six

synthesis4all
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:34 pm

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by synthesis4all » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:10 am

Wow, thanks for the quick reply from the Moog Music team! I respect the statements, but still really hope that my sub 37 has straight keys and closed side panels. :D

As far as the whole of this discussion.

I, the consumer of this product have certain expectations, and when I see and or hear what may seem or look like design flaws, I take notice and want to find out more.

Further. The Sub 37 is a beautiful instrument, and any design issue or tolerance that is accepted or expected should also be expected to have those things take away from its perceived beauty and or value relative to the individual.

I understand tolerances, I have read stories of other companies with misaligned keys, but hey, maybe someone in the synth design world should have solved the issue by now. Why are some keybeds straight and others wonky? Is there any future design technique to remedy it? The LCD is showing light through the side tolerance? Design small interior side panels around the LCD to prevent it. We shouldn't negate our voice as consumers, if you are, clearly you don't get how the Sub 37 came about, its a product built from Moog listening to their users from the Phatty line and or learning what they wanted to put into their next synth. Just because its here, doesn't mean that growth stops or ceases to have new ideas introduced. Everything we say and or do very well could shape the next Moog or firmware update you see. :!:

User avatar
Voltor07
Posts: 5194
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 3:04 am
Location: Waukegan, IL USA
Contact:

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by Voltor07 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:11 am

synthesis4all wrote:[/snip}

I understand tolerances, I have read stories of other companies with misaligned keys, but hey, maybe someone in the synth design world should have solved the issue by now. Why are some keybeds straight and others wonky? :!:
Why are some keybeds straight and others wonky? I have no idea. Nor do I understand how a $5000 piano can have a few keys a few mm off and a $15000 piano have a keybed that is absolutely perfect. Perhaps it's because the factory takes more time getting the $15000 piano looking perfect, because someone buying a $5000 piano shouldn't expect the same quality as a person buying a $15000 piano? Just a guess. In this instance, the difference in quality is a difference of $1500 (see Voyager Performer pricing), not $10k, but to me, the reasoning is the same. Like I said before, the Sub 37 is a far superior instrument in build quality than the Little Phatty, which was a mere $300 cheaper seven years ago. Figuring for inflation, well, I think you can see for yourself where this is going. :wink:
Last edited by Voltor07 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

User avatar
Voltor07
Posts: 5194
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 3:04 am
Location: Waukegan, IL USA
Contact:

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by Voltor07 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:54 am

jido-genshi wrote:
Really Voltor07?

In my case, though I haven't yet received my Sub 37 so I can't attest to the actual quality yet, seeing the pictures of that gap from other users has had me a bit worried. Is it because I'm a NOOB? I doubt it, considering that I've been playing and owning synths since the mid-1970s; starting with the Arp Odyssey... and I've played just about all of them since then, from the Yamaha CS-80 when it first came out, to the original Roland Jupiters, to the Sequential Circuits Prophets, to even a Fairlight CMI II. So I expect quality! Especially from an American Manufacture who stamps their synths "Handcrafted"... and that's not too much to ask.

Luckily, Moog seems to have responded here with a reasonable solution, so again, I'll have to wait until I receive mine to make a judgement, but to call people Noobs because of these legitimate issues shows that you are the Noob and don't know much about quality... at least, not by looking at the way you handled that Sub 37 in your unboxing video! :shock:
Right...I can tell I'm dealing with a seasoned veteran of analog synths here. You've been playing for longer than I've been alive, that's fine. You expect very good quality in a hand made synth that costs $1500 from a company who builds a $5,000 monosynth as their flagship. See my comment about pianos...I'm not repeating myself. Also, see my comment about my previous experience with the Little Phatty, which had uneven keys that were not only clackity, but also creaked and had no aftertouch, had loose wheels, and just felt cheap. It was a $1249 mono synth when I bought it seven years ago. A lot has changed in seven years. Cost of living has gone up. Cost of parts and labor has gone up...so Moog has built a knobby, button-ey 37 key synthesizer WITH wood side panels and released it at the low price of $1500...seems like a bargain basement price to me, in comparison to the Little Phatty. The comment about my unboxing video confuses me. I was extremely careful not to drop the synth, and handled it pretty carefully, made sure not to bash it into anything...so I'm not sure what you're implying there.
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

synthesis4all
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:34 pm

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by synthesis4all » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:42 am

Voltor07, maybe if you original phatty users would have spoken up about the design build, the company could have taken the concerns into consideration. Regardless, I doubt because the Sub37 is 1500 and not 3000 that Moog cares less about the quality, its just one of those things that slip by, is the way it is, and or hasn't been improved upon, yet... IMO

Besides, 1500 isn't cheap. I don't know what you do for a living, but if shelling out 1500 on something isn't a big deal to you, please get me your job.. :mrgreen:

I accept it as it is, but there are many other instruments and devices out there that cost way less than 1500 that have everything just right... Look at cell phones, guitars, saxes, anything designed. Lower prices shouldn't justify issues.. If its possible to have a flush flat keybed, within reason and tolerance and a 300 dollar synth has one, then so should / could a 1500 dollar one. If a 150 dollar midi controller can have flushed side panels that don't allow light out from the LCD, well.... :roll:

How I see it...
http://youtu.be/LvG_M_fAkXU

and from this great documentary on product design called Objectified.
http://youtu.be/HGPIqGi7MWY

User avatar
jido-genshi
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:05 pm
Location: Portland Oregon by way of Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Gap on the left side of the control panel

Post by jido-genshi » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:53 am

Voltor07 wrote:
jido-genshi wrote:
Really Voltor07?

In my case, though I haven't yet received my Sub 37 so I can't attest to the actual quality yet, seeing the pictures of that gap from other users has had me a bit worried. Is it because I'm a NOOB? I doubt it, considering that I've been playing and owning synths since the mid-1970s; starting with the Arp Odyssey... and I've played just about all of them since then, from the Yamaha CS-80 when it first came out, to the original Roland Jupiters, to the Sequential Circuits Prophets, to even a Fairlight CMI II. So I expect quality! Especially from an American Manufacture who stamps their synths "Handcrafted"... and that's not too much to ask.

Luckily, Moog seems to have responded here with a reasonable solution, so again, I'll have to wait until I receive mine to make a judgement, but to call people Noobs because of these legitimate issues shows that you are the Noob and don't know much about quality... at least, not by looking at the way you handled that Sub 37 in your unboxing video! :shock:
Right...I can tell I'm dealing with a seasoned veteran of analog synths here. You've been playing for longer than I've been alive, that's fine. You expect very good quality in a hand made synth that costs $1500 from a company who builds a $5,000 monosynth as their flagship. See my comment about pianos...I'm not repeating myself. Also, see my comment about my previous experience with the Little Phatty, which had uneven keys that were not only clackity, but also creaked and had no aftertouch, had loose wheels, and just felt cheap. It was a $1249 mono synth when I bought it seven years ago. A lot has changed in seven years. Cost of living has gone up. Cost of parts and labor has gone up...so Moog has built a knobby, button-ey 37 key synthesizer WITH wood side panels and released it at the low price of $1500...seems like a bargain basement price to me, in comparison to the Little Phatty. The comment about my unboxing video confuses me. I was extremely careful not to drop the synth, and handled it pretty carefully, made sure not to bash it into anything...so I'm not sure what you're implying there.
Look, you seem like a nice guy and I don't want to get into a war here with you, but you started it with calling everyone a Noob for being rightful worried about a pretty glaring quality control issue.

So all I'm going to say about this until I receive mine is, I use to work in the industry for years... including for M-Audio, who was considered as having some of the cheapest quality around. I know exactly how much all of this stuff costs to make, and what to expect in quality from mass-manufactured Chinese factories (like M-Audio does) versus hand-built in the U.S. (like Moog and Dave Smith Instruments.) I currently have friends making some very well known Modular synths here in the U.S. (though that's a whole other thing.)

So even at a "measly" $1500 (which isn't all that measly) you should at least not have such a large gap on one side of the panel, that's just sloppy QC. As for the key-bed issue, I don't know what's going on lately, but I've heard a lot of synths now have this issue... luckily none of my current synths have this issue, and any synth over $500 really shouldn't.

As I said before, luckily Moog addressed the issue to us here so that should be of some comfort to us all... and I am looking forward to receiving my Sub 37, because to be honest, it is the first affordable synth in a long time I've been really excited about, so much so that, with the 30+ synths I've owned over the years, it's the first one I have ever pre-ordered! I usually wait until they're out-in-the-wild and can be tested in the real world. So I know it'll be a great synth, just a shame that, because they we a couple of months behind production schedule (due to a "sourcing parts" issue, from what Moog themselves told me a couple of months ago when I called them) that they are now rushing them out to meet demand without checking the little details like fit and finish... Same thing happened with my new Theremini; though it is really inexpensive, still the volume antenna shouldn't be bent, the rubber feet on the bottom shouldn't be falling off on day one, the user manual shouldn't have such glaringly wrong instructions on how to get into the advanced menu (had to call them about that) but still, not worth sending back over these little things at such a small price... and I am enjoying my Theremini quite a bit! (my first Theremin was Bob Moog's Big Briar Theremin before he got the Moog company name back.)

Locked