using Sub Phatty Editor plugin in Ableton Live

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Amos
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using Sub Phatty Editor plugin in Ableton Live

Post by Amos » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:37 pm

Hi all,

I have had a number of requests for more information, or a set of instructions for using the Sub Phatty editor in Live (and other DAWs). I'll see what we can put together. For now, here is a little something I just wrote in an e-mail, which I thought might be of wider interest.

Feel free to use this thread to post your own reports of what has worked well for you, or what you have questions about, and perhaps we can start here to establish what are the best practices for this tool.


Here is a note about parameter automation, if you're trying to record and play back hardware knob movements while using the editor. There is a link between Live, the editor plugin, and the hardware synth, which is missing by default and needs to be added manually. Namely, Live doesn't know that the hardware knobs are mapped to the plugin parameters. As far as Live is concerned, the Sub Phatty hardware is a generic MIDI controller, that sends CCs when you turn knobs... but Live doesn't know to record automation for a particular plugin parameter, unless you make that association yourself.

So, here is what you have to do.
in Live, go to the device view for the MoogSubPhatty editor plugin... unfold the device parameters, and click the "configure" button.

Image

Now click on each panel knob and switch in the plugin UI, to add a slider for that parameter to Live's parameter list. Once you have all the parameters added to the device panel, you can map them to the MIDI coming from the actual Sub Phatty hardware. You do this the same way you'd map any MIDI controller to any plugin: type command-M to enter MIDI mapping mode, then click on a parameter slider on the device panel and turn or press the corresponding knob or switch on the Sub Phatty hardware control panel. You should see the MIDI CC number appear on the parameter slider in the device panel, indicating that the parameter mapping is now set. Click and adjust each control in turn, and press escape when finished to exit mapping mode.

To save all the effort of mapping, you can put the MIDI-mapped editor into an Effect Rack or Instrument Rack, then name and save the rack. When you recall that rack, it will recall the Sub Phatty Editor with all of its MIDI mapping intact.

Once the Sub Phatty is mapped as a controller to the plugin, you should be able to record and play back automation in the way you would expect it to work to begin with.

I haven't worked with a setup like this extensively so this isn't 100% road-tested info... but I am pretty sure it does work as described here...

-Amos

JohanH211
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Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:07 am

Re: using Sub Phatty Editor plugin in Ableton Live

Post by JohanH211 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:52 pm

Hi Amos,

Thanks for this message. I have got everything working in Ableton and Windows but the automation driven from the hardware is still not recordable.

Current situation:
1. When I rotate the hardware cutoff the VST editor cutoff also rotates on screen (as it should).
2. I can map the VST editor cutoff as you propose as an ableton mapped parameter.
3. When I move the the VST editor cutoff on screen with my mouse you see the ableton mapped parameter move from left to right (like you suggested and as it should)
4. But then when I rotate the hardware cutoff you see VST editor cutoff rotating but the ableton mapped parameter does not......

That's weird right? Seems like there is still some kind of communication missing between the VST and Ableton Live.
I hope there is help on the way for this or that it is a simple fix.

Many thanks

h4ndcrafted
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: using Sub Phatty Editor plugin in Ableton Live

Post by h4ndcrafted » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:07 pm

Yes I have tried this too. Thing is, the Instrument rack, while saving the configerations, does not save the midi map! so when you load up the rack again, all the midi map is lost.

Pretty frustrating.

Back to creating an External Instrument rack and editing the CC, which is almost pointless if you have a lot of automation data , it just too confusing to remember which CC is for what.

Whish there was a work around :(

bucephalus
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:50 pm

Re: using Sub Phatty Editor plugin in Ableton Live

Post by bucephalus » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:57 pm

The biggest problem for me comes when I map plug-in parameters from the Editor in the External instrument and automate them. For the first track this works great, I can record and draw automation and see the correct name of the parameter in the automation lane. When I then create a second track with an External Instrument configured the same way and disable or Freeze the first track I still get the automation from that first track sent to the Sub Phatty, even if the External Instrument and the Edito is disabled.

This is not a problem if I automate on MIDI CC's in the clip, the only problem then is that I don't see the name of the parameter.

My guess:
If the Editor could avoid sending any midi it receives from Ableton to the Sub Phatty if the Editor has been disabled in Ableton.

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acatcalledanarchy
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Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands

Re: using Sub Phatty Editor plugin in Ableton Live

Post by acatcalledanarchy » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:25 am

Hi JohanH211 / Amos / h4ndcrafted

Just to confirm that I'm in the same situation myself as regards Ableton Live integration of the Sub Phatty via the VST on Mac OS X 10.8.5.

JohanH211 wrote:Hi Amos,

Thanks for this message. I have got everything working in Ableton and Windows but the automation driven from the hardware is still not recordable.

Current situation:
1. When I rotate the hardware cutoff the VST editor cutoff also rotates on screen (as it should).
2. I can map the VST editor cutoff as you propose as an ableton mapped parameter.
3. When I move the the VST editor cutoff on screen with my mouse you see the ableton mapped parameter move from left to right (like you suggested and as it should)
4. But then when I rotate the hardware cutoff you see VST editor cutoff rotating but the ableton mapped parameter does not......

That's weird right? Seems like there is still some kind of communication missing between the VST and Ableton Live.
I hope there is help on the way for this or that it is a simple fix.

Many thanks


Also I can confirm the following:

h4ndcrafted wrote:Yes I have tried this too. Thing is, the Instrument rack, while saving the configerations, does not save the midi map! so when you load up the rack again, all the midi map is lost.

Pretty frustrating.


Anyone got any ideas as regards a solution going forwards?

Peace, love and flowers...
A Cat Called Anarchy

Voyager Select Series Whitewash Electric Blue, Little Phatty Stage II, Minitaur

h4ndcrafted
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: using Sub Phatty Editor plugin in Ableton Live

Post by h4ndcrafted » Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:50 pm

Nope sorry, I just making do editing the cc.

Thing is you can't then add live arpeg , so no using the the sw editor with the midi arp.

Sucks.

JohanH211
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:07 am

Re: using Sub Phatty Editor plugin in Ableton Live

Post by JohanH211 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:44 am

Hi all,

This is not ment to complain, but to confirm that no solutions have come yet.

Its all very frustrating that my Subphatty is only gathering dust. It might be really difficult to make a sound functioning vst plugin, but you would at least expect some communication from Moog that there looking into it. Last week an update was send for the VSt but after placing this VSt in its regular folder Ableton sees it but says it can't be opened. Hope anybody else has had a better experience so far and hopefully even got everything working like it should have been working a long time ago...

@ Moog, could you at least update us? Thanks

JohanH211
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:07 am

Re: using Sub Phatty Editor plugin in Ableton Live

Post by JohanH211 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:47 pm

At last, all seems to be solved. I had an Ableton 32 bit version and after losing all hope with the editor I installed an ableton 64 bit version while using the 64 bit version of the editor.
So if your having similar problems, my 32 bit editor didn't work at all.... try it on the 64 bit version of Ableton

nofuturenocore
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 4:16 pm

Re: using Sub Phatty Editor plugin in Ableton Live

Post by nofuturenocore » Fri May 09, 2014 4:05 am

The easiest thing to do, to have the midi mapping of the subp saved is to modifiy your starting set in Live with all the job done so when you start a new project you'll have everything setup.

Tithelix
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:39 pm

Re: using Sub Phatty Editor plugin in Ableton Live

Post by Tithelix » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:25 pm

I would like to thank you guys for providing such efficient information.
I was fighting hard since 3 days against this vst with finally no hope as i thought that all ideas have been tried.
I'm using a USB MIDI patch so that my SP is midi connected by din.
I have tried all your solution with no success until i tried this :

Sans titre.tiff


I 've set the remote function of my UM-3G midi port (2) in and out to on (as shown on the picture) and the magic operated :)
All the functions added by cmd + M were automated directly.
Now all work fine and it's a big pleasure to get the possibility to automate each knob of my SB in real time :)

Last thing which was very frustrating was the fact that all instrument rack parameters could not be saved forcing to rebuild each time we open a new Sub Phatty Editor VST all the CC parameters...

Sans titre 1.tiff


Until nofuturenocore gave me the solution just modifying how Live has to start when i start a new project.

Now each time i open a new project, i have an instrument rack including the VST Sub Phatty Editor entirely automated in my first track ready to be recorded and automated.

That's amazing!!

Again many thanks for the support :)

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Meneer Vincent
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Location: Netherlands - Rotterdam

Re: using Sub Phatty Editor plugin in Ableton Live

Post by Meneer Vincent » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:20 am

@ Tithelix Very helpful thanks!

Renaud
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Location: Paris (France)

Re: using Sub Phatty Editor plugin in Ableton Live

Post by Renaud » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:17 am

I can't seem to be able to:
  • play notes from my DAW on the hardware
  • send automation from my DAW to the editor (which should send it to the hardware)
...at the same time. Maybe because the editor uses the same midi input to speak to the hardware as my DAW does.

Is there a workaround? I'm using FL Studio but any info will be helpful if you managed to do that!

Thanks!

Padbangers
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:54 pm

Re: using Sub Phatty Editor plugin in Ableton Live

Post by Padbangers » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:41 pm

I think there's a bug in Live 9.5 ... whenever I try to save the setup as an .adg file the midi cc mapping gets deleted. I already reported this.

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