Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

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Del-Uks
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Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by Del-Uks » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:31 pm

Hi everyone,

I intend to buy a Sub Phatty for some time, now... but the Sub was out-of-stock every time I had the money in my pocket.

However, in the meantime, I had the opportunity to give away a drum machine I never really used for a mint Slim Phatty unit. And despite some issue I have with MIDI, the more I tweak the Slim Phatty... the more I love it !

I use it mostly with a Doepfer Dark Time MIDI/CV sequencer, a Hirlostek noise cable, a MP-201 Multi-Pedal, an EP-2 Expression Pedal and a Moogerfooger MF-104M. I have to say I am delightfully pleased by the CV options I can get from this setup, but I guess more is better and my next purchase will probably be a CP-251...

Anyway, as I said, my first intention was to get a Sub Phatty. So when I got my Slim Phatty I first thought it would just be great to use it in conjunction with the Sub Phatty latter, in order to have more sonic options...
But now that I've been bitten by the "CV fever", I'm also tempted by the Little Phatty with CV out mod, while they are still available. I guess the second scenario would get me less sonic opportunities but lot more CV à-la-modular fun...

I am really torn between the two.

What do you guys suggest ?

Thank you for your attention.

Cheers,

Del-Uks
My Moogs : Minimoog Model D #10790 • Slim Phatty #SP 00433 • Sub Phatty #SUB03422 • MP-201 Multi-Pedal #MP00344 • Moogerfooger MF-104M Analog Delay White Finish #2074 • Moogerfooger CP-251 Control Processor #3962

IgorCristo
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Re: Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by IgorCristo » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:03 pm

I have the Little and Sub Phatty here... I think that I can give you a fair answer.

If i had what you have, I think that I'd rather have a two voice Moog than 3 mono ones... to me, the Little Phatty is the answer! :)

If you think about it, you can make a 3-4 voice Phatty later, buying more Slims, and have a blast with it. The other thing is that Little Phatty is going to be discontinued, and maybe this is your last chance to get a NEW and UNUSED unit. I know that I'm going to keep mine!

This is just my opinion. You can have several here that can disagree, but this is what I would do!

Cheers!!
Moog Minimoog Voyager Performer Edition and Little Phatty Stage II | Elektron Analog Four and Analog Rytm | Mutable Instruments Ambika | Korg Minilogue

CleverConQueso
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Re: Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by CleverConQueso » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:02 pm

I feel compelled to offer the opposite opinion to make sure that the waters are muddied. Judging from your gear you're looking for range of sound more than for polyphony. I had a Slim and a Sub and sold the Slim. I love love love the sound they made played in unison. Ginormous is too gentle a word. However, in terms of range of sound and bang for the buck, the Sub offers more. The filter self-oscillation sounds more round and musical to me on the Sub, the overdrive is more real-world useful and musical, the sub-oscillator adds effectively a portion of a third oscillator in terms of how it thickens the sound and each of the oscillators overdrive at the mixer level. And there's noise which I still haven't found a use for. The Sub just offers more play-ability and range.
What drum machine did you give away?
I should note that except for the Sub, I only buy used gear so being discontinued doesn't really mean anything to me. If you're a different way, you'll want to adjust accordingly.
I suppose one day there could be a Sub without a keyboard but I've never heard anything to support that.
Ok, I got it. Sell the Slim, get the Little plus mod and the sub. There.

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by stiiiiiiive » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:33 am

I'll let the heart speak here. The context is I got a Little Phatty two and half years ago and upgraded for the CV out version 6 months ago, although I haven't over-used it yet, but certainly will. I also have some CV equiped FX units. Plus I tried my friend's SubPhatty.

So…

Del-Uks wrote:But now that I've been bitten by the "CV fever", I'm also tempted by the Little Phatty with CV out mod, while they are still available. I guess the second scenario would get me less sonic opportunities but lot more CV à-la-modular fun...


If CV is what you're after, obviously, get the CV Phatty. You'll be able to get some more Slim as well as a Sub (or any other synth that 'll procide some oscillators )whenever the money comes in, while the CV integration of the Phatty has no such substitute.
Besides, I don't think CV offers less sonic options that a 3-4 osciilator system, but certainly different, more original options. I can hardly imagine one would be disapointed or bored with a CV Phatty while I can with a Slim + Sub combo.

If market matters: their prices will stay the same or go down. Conversely, in terms of market, the new Little Phatty is about to be discontinued, which allows to think the used price will go up. Tss.

There is an Solar CV Phatty in Annecy, for that matters. You can see the ad on our francophone forum.

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Re: Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by Stuka » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:43 am

Another vote here for the Little Phatty with CV.

It's a reliable, mature synth with lots of proven capabilities, not the least of which is poly-chain support with other LP's, SP's, and Voyagers, and CV In and OUT to interface with a huge variety of analog CV gear. "New" LP's aren't going to be available much longer, so it is now one of those "get them while you can" synths.

A Slim could be paired up with an LP at any time down the road for some very cool sound creation options! :mrgreen:

The Sub is in its infancy, so it's still got a bit of development and issues to be worked through yet, and will probably be commercially available for several more years.

They're all good synths, just different, and acquiring one now doesn't mean it negates the "need" for an additional Moog sometime down the road... :)

Randy
Little Phatty Solar CV, Minitaur, Slim Phatty (x2), MF-101, MF-102, MF-103, MF-104M, MF-105M, MF-108M, CP-251 (x2), Animoog app, Filtatron app, Model D app, Model 15 app...and some 5U modular and Doepfer stuff...

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Del-Uks
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Re: Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by Del-Uks » Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:09 am

Thank you everyone for your precious inputs.

So I have two scenarios to choose from (in bold : stuff I already own):

1- Little Phatty with CV out mod + Slim Phatty + Hirlostek noise cable (for the missing noise of the Slim/Little Phatties) + MP-201 Multi-Pedal + EP-2 Expression Pedal + Moogerfooger MF-104M

2- Sub Phatty + Slim Phatty + Hirlostek noise cable (for the missing noise of the Slim/Little Phatties) + MP-201 Multi-Pedal + EP-2 Expression Pedal + Moogerfooger MF-104M + Moogerfooger CP-251 Control Processor*
* I could easily afford the CP-251 alongside the Sub Phatty considering the price difference of the Sub and the Little with CV out mod

So, when I first read all of your comments, my first reaction was : the best of both world would be a Sub Phatty with CV out mod !

...then I went through old thread to read and learn what has already been discussed in the past... (this forum has tons of substantial resources to dig into !)

Here is what I found :

- A Slim Phatty CV Out has been discussed in the past :

kingnimrod wrote:I was told by a Moog tech rep today that they are actively working on it and that it will be a breakout box solution.


- CV out mod can be unreliable in some cases...

- Some interesting comparison has been made between the advantage of the CP-251 over the CV out mod (and vice-versa)

- ...and I realized that my MP-201 might already do what the CV out mod could add to my setup, despite the missing fifth CV output of the Multi-Pedal...

So here is my conclusion, so far...

The second scenario (Sub Phatty + Slim Phatty + MP-201 + CP-251...) seems to have more CV potentials than the first scenario (Little Phatty with CV out mod + Slim Phatty + MP-201...) :

Two different sound engine/sources synchronized with MIDI and CV patches to get some versatile 2 oscillators + 2 oscillators delights and complex unison mode, the same way it was suggested in these thread...

Moreover, I prefer the (almost) "wysiwyg" approach of the Sub Phatty over the Litlle/Slim Phatty user interface. Mutlidrive sounds like a nice option. Its short warm-up period is a real advantage. The velocity seems to be more usable with the Sub (control of loudness and brightness). It has a real noise generator and its higher maximum filter cutoff frequency increases the possibilities.

Del-Uks wrote:I'd like to be able to use the Sub keyboard as a master keyboard sending MIDI note to the Slim Phatty then going back to the Sub as a final stage. By doing so I could make profit of the LP's arpeggiator and alternate scale tuning, without having to use an external MIDI keyboard...


I guess, the only thing I would really miss from the Little Phatty is the 3-octave keyboard.

What do you guys think ? (sorry for the headaches ! ;-p )

Cheers,

Del-Uks
My Moogs : Minimoog Model D #10790 • Slim Phatty #SP 00433 • Sub Phatty #SUB03422 • MP-201 Multi-Pedal #MP00344 • Moogerfooger MF-104M Analog Delay White Finish #2074 • Moogerfooger CP-251 Control Processor #3962

IgorCristo
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Re: Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by IgorCristo » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:21 am

When you put it like that, I have just one more thing to say... if polyphony isn't important to you, maybe the Sub + Slim is actually a better choice. They actually sound different, wich is a good thing if you want just another monosynth.

I really like my Sub, and the noise on this thing is AMAZING. Really hard and powerful noise source... incredible. I don't think that you'll need the noise cable having a Sub.

Having a CP-251 is also a great thing, and maybe in the future you'll be able to add CV (if your Moog tech/friend is really talking serious).

The Sub is a more versatile and capable synth overall... it has a lot of new features that really stands out when comparing to the Little/Slim, that can surely make a difference in sound. I think you'll be happy with them if polyphony is not something you desire/look for. :)

Cheers!
Moog Minimoog Voyager Performer Edition and Little Phatty Stage II | Elektron Analog Four and Analog Rytm | Mutable Instruments Ambika | Korg Minilogue

Sir Nose
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Re: Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by Sir Nose » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:39 am

I would go sub + slim.

I do not believe the noise cable has any attenuation and the LP&SP have no attenuation at the external in. Just need to run it into a pot first.

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by stiiiiiiive » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:18 am

Del-Uks, you seem to have decided yet, mate :)

FWIW I find the Little Phatty more wysiwyg than the Sub Phatty. Would be glad to have others Mooguys' feeling.

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Del-Uks
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Re: Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by Del-Uks » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:08 am

IgorCristo wrote:When you put it like that, I have just one more thing to say... if polyphony isn't important to you, maybe the Sub + Slim is actually a better choice. They actually sound different, wich is a good thing if you want just another monosynth.

[...]

I think you'll be happy with them if polyphony is not something you desire/look for. :)


No interrest on a polyphonic Moog solution here, since I'm quite satisfied with my Roland Juno 60 (and in some way with my Roland D-50), when analog polyphony is needed...

stiiiiiiive wrote:Del-Uks, you seem to have decided yet, mate :)


En effet, je crois que la messe est dite ! ;-)

stiiiiiiive wrote:FWIW I find the Little Phatty more wysiwyg than the Sub Phatty. Would be glad to have others Mooguys' feeling.


Interresting... could you please elaborate this statement ?

My last question : Is the "CV out mod" able to give me more flexibility to control my beloved Minimoog Model D than the MP-201 (I don't really know why, but I can't get modulation and glide control via CV out with the MP-201) ?

So far, the Doepfer MCV-4 and the Doepfer Dark Link seemed to be more prone to give me satisfaction...
My Moogs : Minimoog Model D #10790 • Slim Phatty #SP 00433 • Sub Phatty #SUB03422 • MP-201 Multi-Pedal #MP00344 • Moogerfooger MF-104M Analog Delay White Finish #2074 • Moogerfooger CP-251 Control Processor #3962

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Re: Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by stiiiiiiive » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:00 am

Del-Uks wrote:
stiiiiiiive wrote:FWIW I find the Little Phatty more wysiwyg than the Sub Phatty. Would be glad to have others Mooguys' feeling.


Interresting... could you please elaborate this statement ?


The interface of the Little Phatty shows 4 parameters at a time, whatever their value are, even if you change the preset.

The interface of the Sub Phatty shows all the most important sound parameters, but only in Panel mode of after some tedious adjustment. Changing the preset causes the values to be unrelated to the knob positions, in most cases.

Provided the immediacy of the Little Phatty interface, and provided I need using presets, I'm more at ease with the Little Phatty.

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Re: Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by Del-Uks » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:03 am

stiiiiiiive wrote:The interface of the Little Phatty shows 4 parameters at a time, whatever their value are, even if you change the preset.

The interface of the Sub Phatty shows all the most important sound parameters, but only in Panel mode of after some tedious adjustment. Changing the preset causes the values to be unrelated to the knob positions, in most cases.

Provided the immediacy of the Little Phatty interface, and provided I need using presets, I'm more at ease with the Little Phatty.


You have an interesting point here. That's mostly the reason I hope Moog Music is seriously considering the development an iPad Sub Phatty Edit app to get the standalone visual and facilities in a compact and discrete form (having an open laptop aside my synths during sessions is really not my cup of tea)...
My Moogs : Minimoog Model D #10790 • Slim Phatty #SP 00433 • Sub Phatty #SUB03422 • MP-201 Multi-Pedal #MP00344 • Moogerfooger MF-104M Analog Delay White Finish #2074 • Moogerfooger CP-251 Control Processor #3962

CleverConQueso
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Re: Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by CleverConQueso » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:05 pm

Agree on the WYSIWIG thing. People complain about the little display on the Little/Slim but it means you can see and set the values of some hidden options where you have to play it by ear on the Sub. Stuka (on this thread) recommends a tool called Midi Designer for managing a Sub via Ipad. I'm just starting to play with that now myself for the same reasons you state.
Software development is likely going to continue on the Sub where it's uncertain on the Slim/Little. My guess is Moog will add the Arp feature, for example to revive interest in the Sub when the time comes. But as it stands, it's already got more envelope and tone options than the Little/Slim.

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Re: Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by stiiiiiiive » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:29 am

CleverConQueso wrote:Agree on the WYSIWIG thing. People complain about the little display on the Little/Slim but it means you can see and set the values of some hidden options where you have to play it by ear on the Sub.

I talk for myself but the way hidden parameters are set is not what weighs the most in the way I feel while playing the Little Phatty vs. Sub Phatty. Those are parameters I set once for all for a given patch, if not for the whole synth.
My point was more about playing, I mean keys + knobs: the less jumps in values the more natural feel.

CleverConQueso wrote:as it stands, it's already got more envelope and tone options than the Little/Slim.

As I've already mentioned to Amos in the official Phatty OS suggestions thread, I would LOVE the loopable envelopes on the Little Phatty's next OS :)

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Re: Slim Phatty + "Sub" or "Little with CV out mod" ?

Post by ChrisStack » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:57 pm

Here is some LPCV and SP interaction...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BHXHd7v040

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