Guitarist Entering The Moog World

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synthaxe
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Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by synthaxe » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:36 pm

Hello There,

I'm fairly new to this board, and to Moog for that matter. Just over the past few months have I started to really get into Moog. I'm primarily a guitar player (and have been for about 12 years now,) but the more my musical horizons have expanded, so have the instruments I've become interested in. I started out with the MF-101 and MF-105 about four months ago, and soon realized that the MF-101 by itself pretty much rendered all my q-trons, mu-trons, and wahs useless. I dug into controlled voltage right away (although it was kind of tough to understand at first....when to use trs and when not to that is.) The MF-105 has been a pleasnt surprise. I though it was a neat pedal that might sound better with a synth until I ran it in stereo, put it in front of my MF-101 and behind a rack mount harmonizer. WOW! Using the MuRF now in this setup is lite having a tiny little pad sounding synth or rhythm machine with tons of flavors and control. The harmonizer really brings the MuRF into a whole new territory, and the lowpass swells add so much dimension. I've been running the ENV OUT of the MF-101 into the ENV IN of the MuRF...still not sure what EXACTLY it''s doing, but I think its great for very Synth-like sounds. Synthesis is a totally foreign language to me, but I'm reading all the manuals and now starting to understand it. From what I'm gathering it's basically all definitions and terminology for the generation and manipulation of sound itself. It's a bit more in depth than what I'm used to (and I'm a gear geek/tone freak when it comes to guitars and amps.) That being said, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a Little Phatty, Minitaur, and CP-251. They should be here this week. My question is if it's okay for me to run the Little Phatty/Minitaur out into the effects loop return of one of my Mesa/Boogie amps (effects loop return is basically a poweramp input.) The speaker cab I'll be using is a 2x12 loaded with EVM12L's (200 watts per speaker.) Now, I understand that I can't crank it or the synth level will tear apart my speakers, but is running through one of my Boogie's poweramp sections safe for the amp/a viable option to run the Little Phatty and/or Minitaur through? Thanks a ton guys! It's nice to be part of this board.

Zach

PS - I'm sure I'll have lots more questions but well just start with this one.
Little Phatty Stage II, Minitaur, MF-105, MF-103, MF-102, MF-101, Mesa/Boogie Mark IV, EVH 5150III 50 Watt, EVM12L Speakers, ESP Eclipse-II FR, USA Charvel So-Cal, Squier Vintage Modified Surf Stratocaster, Alesis MidiVerb 4, and tons of Electro Harmonix.

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Voltor07
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Re: Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by Voltor07 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:59 pm

Welcome to the Moog community! The 20-30Hz bass output of both synths can blow your guitar speakers, which are rated from 50-80Hz. I'd invest in a bass amp, keyboard amp, or PA system if I were you. If you don't plan on using the lowest notes these synths are capable of, the guitar amp should do fine. Keep in mind, that the sound will not be clearly reproduced, as guitar amps color the sound that goes through them. :)
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by stiiiiiiive » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:59 am

Voltor07 wrote:Keep in mind, that the sound will not be clearly reproduced, as guitar amps color the sound that goes through them. :)
...adn that's quite cool :)

Welcome, mate!

ZenHead
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Re: Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by ZenHead » Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:44 pm

Hey Synthaxe,

I too am primarily a guitarist and I bought a Little Phatty about a year and a half ago. IT's now looking like my monophonic keyboard playing is beginning to rival my guitar playing. I don't have a Minitaur, yet. So I can't tell you from experience how I would output it. I have a Marshall JCM2000. To tell you the truth I would never think about plugging a Minitaur into it. I have played my Little Phatty through it very sparingly. I love the sound of analogue through a tube amp but what I paid for my Marshall I think it would be foolhardy to continue doing so. What I have been using for an amp and speakers is a set of KRK V6 monitors. Whilst the monitors don't have the same rich tone that the Marshall has, they do have a tonal integrity and I know what I'm putting into them. I think you might still blow them with a Minitaur playing with high volume.

Just an opinion, but if you put out the money for the items you did; you might consider getting a bass amp and speakers for the Minitaur. I would love to hear it through a set of GK's. That would be "Godzilla Balls."

A side note, you might be interested in. I play MIDI guitar. I have a Godin Multiac with a Roland GR-55. I have tried to play my Little Phatty using this system. As much as I try to adjust my GR-55 to the Godin I still get the unwanted notes with the Little Phatty. I've been considering getting a "You Rock Guitar." The thing looks like a toy guitar you would use with Rock Band computer games; in fact you can. But I've seen some amazing videos on Youtube. I think I saw a guy controlling the Slim Phatty with it. I you haven't checked this out, you should do so.

I'm looking forward to hearing about you VC adventures. It's an amazing world. It does not change the rules of music for me. But it sure does change they way I now express my music.

ZH

synthaxe
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Re: Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by synthaxe » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:26 pm

Voltor07 wrote:Welcome to the Moog community! The 20-30Hz bass output of both synths can blow your guitar speakers, which are rated from 50-80Hz. I'd invest in a bass amp, keyboard amp, or PA system if I were you. If you don't plan on using the lowest notes these synths are capable of, the guitar amp should do fine. Keep in mind, that the sound will not be clearly reproduced, as guitar amps color the sound that goes through them. :)
Voltor07,

Thanks a ton for your response, and I intend to follow your advise. I've already contacted my Moog Dealer (Rich @ Lunchbox Audio) about the Roland KC-550. It's kind of a bummer that I won't be able to crank my LP or MT right away, but considering all of the money I've invested into both my guitar and now synth rigs, I believe I can wait another couple weeks. I'll just keep the levels waaaayyy down until then. I'm only going to run the LP through the poweramp section of my amp, so hopefully it wont color the sound too much, well not as much as running it straight into the input of the amp that is. I may just hold off on plugging in the Minitaur entirely until I get my KC-550. I have a feeling that sucker's going to blow a hole right through my speakers no matter where I have its level/volume set at. I should be receiving my LP/MT by Thursday of this week! Once again, thank you.
Little Phatty Stage II, Minitaur, MF-105, MF-103, MF-102, MF-101, Mesa/Boogie Mark IV, EVH 5150III 50 Watt, EVM12L Speakers, ESP Eclipse-II FR, USA Charvel So-Cal, Squier Vintage Modified Surf Stratocaster, Alesis MidiVerb 4, and tons of Electro Harmonix.

synthaxe
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Re: Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by synthaxe » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:45 pm

ZenHead wrote:Hey Synthaxe,

I too am primarily a guitarist and I bought a Little Phatty about a year and a half ago. IT's now looking like my monophonic keyboard playing is beginning to rival my guitar playing. I don't have a Minitaur, yet. So I can't tell you from experience how I would output it. I have a Marshall JCM2000. To tell you the truth I would never think about plugging a Minitaur into it. I have played my Little Phatty through it very sparingly. I love the sound of analogue through a tube amp but what I paid for my Marshall I think it would be foolhardy to continue doing so. What I have been using for an amp and speakers is a set of KRK V6 monitors. Whilst the monitors don't have the same rich tone that the Marshall has, they do have a tonal integrity and I know what I'm putting into them. I think you might still blow them with a Minitaur playing with high volume.

Just an opinion, but if you put out the money for the items you did; you might consider getting a bass amp and speakers for the Minitaur. I would love to hear it through a set of GK's. That would be "Godzilla Balls."

A side note, you might be interested in. I play MIDI guitar. I have a Godin Multiac with a Roland GR-55. I have tried to play my Little Phatty using this system. As much as I try to adjust my GR-55 to the Godin I still get the unwanted notes with the Little Phatty. I've been considering getting a "You Rock Guitar." The thing looks like a toy guitar you would use with Rock Band computer games; in fact you can. But I've seen some amazing videos on Youtube. I think I saw a guy controlling the Slim Phatty with it. I you haven't checked this out, you should do so.

I'm looking forward to hearing about you VC adventures. It's an amazing world. It does not change the rules of music for me. But it sure does change they way I now express my music.

ZH
Hey ZenHead,

Sounds like I'm starting off where you did! The Moog sound is just so killer that I can't NOT have one lol! The Monitors are a great idea, and I did look into them, but I'm ultimately deciding to go with the Roland KC-550. I figure there are probably better amps out there for my Little Phatty/Minitaur, but I'm new to synthesis. I mean, it's not like I started out playing guitar though a Mesa/Boogie Mark IV andV amp you know...I'm sure you didn't start off playing guitar through JCM2000s haha. So yea, a small KC-550 (or monitors for that matter) should work just fine for me (for now.) I agree with you very much, and I don't intend on using my guitar amps/cabs with the LP/MT for long at all. As a matter of fact, I don't think I'll run the Minitaur at ALL until I get my KC-550. When you run your LP through your Marshall, do you go effects loop return (same as power amp in,) or do you plug it straight into your amp?

Okay, no Midi Guitar. I understand Godin are the king of the crop when it comes to the real guitar/midi marriage, and I was going to go down the Godin road as well, but I have ultimately decided to go with Starr Labs for my Midi Guitar controller. I don't have it yet, so I can't comment, but Allan Holdsworth uses their stuff (my favorite guitarist of all time..easily,) and he was a huge SynthAxe user in the '80s. Unfortunately, your correct in saying that most of the Midi/Guitar controllers out there these days are more or less "toys." However, the Starr Labs stuff is not. It's the real deal 100% Midi control and built for that reason, excellent quality, and from what I can tell the best Midi/Guitar controllers around. They have their "Baby-Z" on sale right now for like $599. I would highly suggest calling Harvey at Starr Labs and speaking with him if your serious about a Midi Gutiar to control your sythesizers with. As soon as I'm done paying for my KC-550, MF-104M, and MF-108M, I'm purchasing a Starr Labs Z-55 Midi Guitar. It should be couple months until then, but when I do I'll let you know how it is. Just go check out their stuff before you make a decision. I can't find anything better. I've never played Midi guitar before, but I know it's the direction I'm heading so I figure why not go with the best. Thanks for the heads up on the Godin tracking though. It also may have something to do with the Moog being monophonic you know, and how your midi system in your Godin interacts with the Moog.

I hace an hold school Electro Harmonix Micro Synth (24 volt, classic chassis,) and I remember when I first got it and started playing through it. I remember having to change the way I played (due to it being monophonic for the most part,) and having to learn what all the terms meant; i.e. Trig, Square Wave, Resonance, Frequency Start/Stop, etc. I agree with you, LOTS of things change when drifting over into synthesis. It's been worth it thus far for me though, and it sounds like you're having a blast. Once I get all of my stuff in and figured out I'll get some examples up to share with you guys (especially once I get that Starr Labs controller!) Stay in touch my friend(s)!
Little Phatty Stage II, Minitaur, MF-105, MF-103, MF-102, MF-101, Mesa/Boogie Mark IV, EVH 5150III 50 Watt, EVM12L Speakers, ESP Eclipse-II FR, USA Charvel So-Cal, Squier Vintage Modified Surf Stratocaster, Alesis MidiVerb 4, and tons of Electro Harmonix.

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Voltor07
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Re: Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by Voltor07 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:35 pm

synthaxe wrote: /snip/So yea, a small KC-550 (or monitors for that matter) should work just fine for me (for now.) I agree with you very much, and I don't intend on using my guitar amps/cabs with the LP/MT for long at all. As a matter of fact, I don't think I'll run the Minitaur at ALL until I get my KC-550. When you run your LP through your Marshall, do you go effects loop return (same as power amp in,) or do you plug it straight into your amp?
The KC-550 is a good start, though personally, I prefer the Peavey gear. To each his own. :) You may want to spring for a non-Roland external subwoofer somewhere down the line, and that will really be all the amplification needed for your rig. I say non-Roland subwoofer because Roland makes crappy subs. Actually, I like the idea of the Minitaur going through a Gallien-Krueger rig. Might be a good idea somewhere down the line, then you'd have an output freed up on the KC-550 for something else, like a Voyager or organ/string synth/electric piano.
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

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Re: Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by EricK » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:57 pm

KC-880!
Support the Bob Moog Foundation:
https://npo.networkforgood.org/Donate/Donate.aspx?npoSubscriptionId=4043

I think I hear the mothership coming.

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David Smyth
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Re: Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by David Smyth » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:41 pm

Voltor07 wrote:Actually, I like the idea of the Minitaur going through a Gallien-Krueger rig.
Like this? :lol:

Image
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Voltor07
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Re: Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by Voltor07 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:47 pm

David Smyth wrote: Like this? :lol:

Image
EXACTLY like that! :twisted:
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

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Re: Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by Mr Shave » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:18 pm

synthaxe wrote: I've already contacted my Moog Dealer (Rich @ Lunchbox Audio) about the Roland KC-550.
Yeah Lunchbox Audio!!! Are you a Seattle person also?

synthaxe
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Re: Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by synthaxe » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:31 pm

Voltor07 wrote:
synthaxe wrote: /snip/So yea, a small KC-550 (or monitors for that matter) should work just fine for me (for now.) I agree with you very much, and I don't intend on using my guitar amps/cabs with the LP/MT for long at all. As a matter of fact, I don't think I'll run the Minitaur at ALL until I get my KC-550. When you run your LP through your Marshall, do you go effects loop return (same as power amp in,) or do you plug it straight into your amp?
The KC-550 is a good start, though personally, I prefer the Peavey gear. To each his own. :) You may want to spring for a non-Roland external subwoofer somewhere down the line, and that will really be all the amplification needed for your rig. I say non-Roland subwoofer because Roland makes crappy subs. Actually, I like the idea of the Minitaur going through a Gallien-Krueger rig. Might be a good idea somewhere down the line, then you'd have an output freed up on the KC-550 for something else, like a Voyager or organ/string synth/electric piano.
Actually, It's funny you say that because I was just speaking with my tech/luthier last week and he cautioned against Roland's keyboard amps/subs in general saying that they're "boomy." I'll have to look into this. I know Peavey's stuff used to be great, but from personal experience their tube guitar amps are horrible and noisey now, which is why I avoid the Peavey brand like the plague now. Their PA/Keyboard stuff may be good though, as you say. I'll have to check it out. In the mean time I've been running the Phatty and Minitaur into my Mesa/Boogie Mark IV combo, which has an 200 watt EVM12L in it. It's holding up....for now :|
Little Phatty Stage II, Minitaur, MF-105, MF-103, MF-102, MF-101, Mesa/Boogie Mark IV, EVH 5150III 50 Watt, EVM12L Speakers, ESP Eclipse-II FR, USA Charvel So-Cal, Squier Vintage Modified Surf Stratocaster, Alesis MidiVerb 4, and tons of Electro Harmonix.

synthaxe
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Re: Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by synthaxe » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:32 pm

David Smyth wrote:
Voltor07 wrote:Actually, I like the idea of the Minitaur going through a Gallien-Krueger rig.
Like this? :lol:

Image
Nice rig! My tech recommended a bass rig for my Moogs above all else! That's a very nice rig man.
Little Phatty Stage II, Minitaur, MF-105, MF-103, MF-102, MF-101, Mesa/Boogie Mark IV, EVH 5150III 50 Watt, EVM12L Speakers, ESP Eclipse-II FR, USA Charvel So-Cal, Squier Vintage Modified Surf Stratocaster, Alesis MidiVerb 4, and tons of Electro Harmonix.

synthaxe
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Re: Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by synthaxe » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:35 pm

Mr Shave wrote:
synthaxe wrote: I've already contacted my Moog Dealer (Rich @ Lunchbox Audio) about the Roland KC-550.
Yeah Lunchbox Audio!!! Are you a Seattle person also?
Hey man, I'm not a Seattle person...Central Illinois (but originally from Cleveland, OH.) However, Rich is badass dealer and really takes care of me so I stick with him for all things Moog and synth in general. I don't remember how I got setup with Rich, I think I was searching for an online dealer for an FS-1, and he poped up. Anyhow, $2,000 later and I'm still with him :lol: he's a good dude!
Little Phatty Stage II, Minitaur, MF-105, MF-103, MF-102, MF-101, Mesa/Boogie Mark IV, EVH 5150III 50 Watt, EVM12L Speakers, ESP Eclipse-II FR, USA Charvel So-Cal, Squier Vintage Modified Surf Stratocaster, Alesis MidiVerb 4, and tons of Electro Harmonix.

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Voltor07
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Re: Guitarist Entering The Moog World

Post by Voltor07 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:26 pm

synthaxe wrote:
Actually, It's funny you say that because I was just speaking with my tech/luthier last week and he cautioned against Roland's keyboard amps/subs in general saying that they're "boomy." I'll have to look into this. I know Peavey's stuff used to be great...
I agree Peavey has fallen from grace a bit...even their new keyboard stuff doesn't sound as good as the old stuff. However, if you ever find a KB/A 100 or KB/A 60 for a decent price, like $150 or less, jump on it! I have a video on YouTube showing how to hot rod a KB/A 60, so if you find one worth having, check out that video. :wink:
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

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