Phatty poly mode question.

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Playrecords
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Phatty poly mode question.

Post by Playrecords » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:34 pm

I did try a search but couldn't find a reply to this question which must have been asked....

Can I use a non MOOG synth to play a SP in poly mode? Have a Juno 106 and an analogue solutions telemark with midi and CV.

Cheers.

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Voltor07
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Re: Phatty poly mode question.

Post by Voltor07 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:35 pm

I guess technically you CAN...but only the LP could reproduce the patches on the SP and visa versa. :?
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

EMwhite
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Re: Phatty poly mode question.

Post by EMwhite » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:02 pm

I'm not expert since I only have a single Little Phatty but I believe that the latest algorithm uses a round robin scheme where the first Phatty (#1) doles out the subsequent notes to the other Phatty's (or endpoint devices).

Not sure if the algorithm doesn't care about what is on the end point, if maybe it simply sends the next notes on subsequent channels sort of how the Oberheim Matrix 1000 did, or if the downstream synths hear ALL of the notes and have to count on their own knowing that each n'th note is destined for them.

I'm guessing but hopefully my possibly inaccurate account of how this works will provoke others to correct me : )

There are a number of folks that hang out here regularly that have more than one Phatty and it won't be too difficult to get this tested. (it's one thing to use it quite another to understand how it works and how else it might be applied).

I can tell you one thing, I once had a dream of having my Little Phatty talk with my Taurus III in a Poly mode (albeit a rudimentary one) but could never get it working; the latest code dispenses with the older algorithm which means that Taurus III is not yet compatible.

The majority of Midi devices will work with a Low note / High note scheme but it's rather shoddy, meaning that you literally have to HOLD a note in order to get the 2nd note recognized as the high note, for instance, or press two near simultaneously.

Interested to see what comes out of this thread... hopefully something!
'76 Minimoog, Taurus 3, Oberheim FVS + Son of 2-voice; Sequential ProOne; Juno 106; Moog Model 15; Kurzweil 250; Hammond M3; and a handful of Fender Basses Flickr!

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muksys
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Re: Phatty poly mode question.

Post by muksys » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:40 pm

EMwhite wrote:I'm not expert since I only have a single Little Phatty but I believe that the latest algorithm uses a round robin scheme where the first Phatty (#1) doles out the subsequent notes to the other Phatty's (or endpoint devices).

Not sure if the algorithm doesn't care about what is on the end point, if maybe it simply sends the next notes on subsequent channels sort of how the Oberheim Matrix 1000 did, or if the downstream synths hear ALL of the notes and have to count on their own knowing that each n'th note is destined for them.

I'm guessing but hopefully my possibly inaccurate account of how this works will provoke others to correct me : )

There are a number of folks that hang out here regularly that have more than one Phatty and it won't be too difficult to get this tested. (it's one thing to use it quite another to understand how it works and how else it might be applied).

I can tell you one thing, I once had a dream of having my Little Phatty talk with my Taurus III in a Poly mode (albeit a rudimentary one) but could never get it working; the latest code dispenses with the older algorithm which means that Taurus III is not yet compatible.

The majority of Midi devices will work with a Low note / High note scheme but it's rather shoddy, meaning that you literally have to HOLD a note in order to get the 2nd note recognized as the high note, for instance, or press two near simultaneously.

Interested to see what comes out of this thread... hopefully something!
So, I just hooked up my Minitaur to my LP and set the LP to poly 1of 2. It ...sorta..works. I can get 2 note chords to happen, but it's dodgy at best. I will mess with settings some more and see what happens. My guess is, once it's dialed in right, it could work.

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muksys
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Re: Phatty poly mode question.

Post by muksys » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:17 pm

muksys wrote:
EMwhite wrote:I'm not expert since I only have a single Little Phatty but I believe that the latest algorithm uses a round robin scheme where the first Phatty (#1) doles out the subsequent notes to the other Phatty's (or endpoint devices).

Not sure if the algorithm doesn't care about what is on the end point, if maybe it simply sends the next notes on subsequent channels sort of how the Oberheim Matrix 1000 did, or if the downstream synths hear ALL of the notes and have to count on their own knowing that each n'th note is destined for them.

I'm guessing but hopefully my possibly inaccurate account of how this works will provoke others to correct me : )

There are a number of folks that hang out here regularly that have more than one Phatty and it won't be too difficult to get this tested. (it's one thing to use it quite another to understand how it works and how else it might be applied).

I can tell you one thing, I once had a dream of having my Little Phatty talk with my Taurus III in a Poly mode (albeit a rudimentary one) but could never get it working; the latest code dispenses with the older algorithm which means that Taurus III is not yet compatible.

The majority of Midi devices will work with a Low note / High note scheme but it's rather shoddy, meaning that you literally have to HOLD a note in order to get the 2nd note recognized as the high note, for instance, or press two near simultaneously.

Interested to see what comes out of this thread... hopefully something!
So, I just hooked up my Minitaur to my LP and set the LP to poly 1of 2. It ...sorta..works. I can get 2 note chords to happen, but it's dodgy at best. I will mess with settings some more and see what happens. My guess is, once it's dialed in right, it could work.
I gave up. Instead I rerouted my MIDI config. Just spent the past hour sequencing the LP & MT together (hardpanned LR) while I did my best Keith Emerson Stunt Solo on a MophoKeyTetra. I was in the zone man. I need a glittery jacket for moments like that.

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Voltor07
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Re: Phatty poly mode question.

Post by Voltor07 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:34 pm

The Mighty Boosh! :lol:
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Playrecords
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Re: Phatty poly mode question.

Post by Playrecords » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:11 am

Hmm so it's unstable unless used with another phatty/voyager? I can use cv and gate to make a nice X OSC mono but I can do that with any desktop/rack VCO synth.... the poly side got me interested.... Thanks for replies. L

Playrecords
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Re: Phatty poly mode question.

Post by Playrecords » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:24 am

Ordered one anyway. :lol:

jeepo
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Re: Phatty poly mode question.

Post by jeepo » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:50 pm

The poly mode works by counting how many notes have been presses and then playing the one assigned to that machine. If the phatty is voice 3/4 then on the third note played that synth would be triggered, and then once synth's 4/4, 1/4, 2/4 have played then synth 3/4 is used agian.
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Playrecords
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Re: Phatty poly mode question.

Post by Playrecords » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:02 pm

jeepo wrote:The poly mode works by counting how many notes have been presses and then playing the one assigned to that machine. If the phatty is voice 3/4 then on the third note played that synth would be triggered, and then once synth's 4/4, 1/4, 2/4 have played then synth 3/4 is used agian.
So your saying it works with any synth?

The question is does it work with non MOOG synths.... I've bought it anyway so I'll answer the question myself I suppose. :wink:

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David Smyth
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Re: Phatty poly mode question.

Post by David Smyth » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:20 pm

Playrecords wrote:Hmm so it's unstable unless used with another phatty/voyager?
The Phattys used to use some other scheme to distribute midi notes, however it has since changed to this "round-robin" scheme described above by jeepo. The Voyager is still working on the old scheme, so at this stage Phattys and Voyagers can't be polychained, unless the Voyager poly scheme is changed in the future (Amos has previously mentioned this would be a good idea).

There are various third party midi devices that can distribute midi notes for polyphonic playing. You could look into those maybe.

Regards,
David Smyth
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Sir Nose
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Re: Phatty poly mode question.

Post by Sir Nose » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:56 am

Playrecords wrote:
jeepo wrote:The poly mode works by counting how many notes have been presses and then playing the one assigned to that machine. If the phatty is voice 3/4 then on the third note played that synth would be triggered, and then once synth's 4/4, 1/4, 2/4 have played then synth 3/4 is used agian.
So your saying it works with any synth?

The question is does it work with non MOOG synths.... I've bought it anyway so I'll answer the question myself I suppose. :wink:
A single slim will only be monophonic. You need as many phattys as you want voices.

Playrecords
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Re: Phatty poly mode question.

Post by Playrecords » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:18 am

^ yes obviously a mono is a mono.... The question is can a voice from a non MOOG mono be used as the second or 3rd or x x x voice Using MOOG poly mode....

I have seen a MOOG rogue providing the second voice so I'm not sure why it would be that complex to achieve.

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Re: Phatty poly mode question.

Post by Sir Nose » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:57 pm

Your best bet is using an external box for poly voice assignment. That way different synths that use different voice assignment schemes can be used together. A few on the market. Some midi to midi, some midi to CV, or maybe both.

Playrecords
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Re: Phatty poly mode question.

Post by Playrecords » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:29 pm

Thanks sir nose!! The video I seen was using a cv to midi converter.... :) Leon.

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