CV-out extension vs. CP-251

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stiiiiiiive
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CV-out extension vs. CP-251

Post by stiiiiiiive » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:02 pm

Hey guys.

I play a Phatty, own a couple of stompboxes which accept CV-in (one Fooger and others) and I'm planning to get some others. I am naturally attracted by the CV-out extension, but I realized the CP-251 could offer some advantages. So I'm knid of confused. I think I've many of the elements, but if some of you guys have more, that's cool.
Here's where I'm:

> LP's CV-out extension
+ has the whole "modular" system responding to the keyboard playing
+ nothing more to power nor carry
+ allows me to have a switch fixed at the time they'll install the extension

> CP-251
+ has more possibilities than the CV-outs
+ is more transportable in case I don't need the synth but just some processing
+ is cheaper

Obviously what is plus for one is often a minus for the other.

Thoughs?...

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Portamental
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Re: CV-out extension vs. CP-251

Post by Portamental » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:36 pm

CV ins and CV outs go hand in hand. There's only so much you can do with an LP and CVins only with a CP-251. For practical reasons (shipping costs, courier and customs issues) I never got the CV outs uprade. If I could buy an LP with the outs right there at my dealer, it would be a done deal.

Still, there are only on a handful of CV's in and out on a LP while there is a dozen plus on the Voyager, and it's full of knobs, and that is my ultimate preference.

My dream synth would be a Voyager with a Minimoog model D sound. I have an OS that sounds like a Voyager, and a thousand presets is not enough incentive for me to move 'up' to either a regular Voyager or an XL.

However, if I were on a budget and with only an LP, the LP's CV upgrade is quite affordable and I would have it done.

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Re: CV-out extension vs. CP-251

Post by cliffman » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:00 pm

I wouldn't say the CP-251 has 'more possibilities' than the CV-outs, they do different things.

The LP CV out will let you control stuff from the LP keyboard either by pitch , envelope or
mod wheel. Sending pitch information to foogers can be lot's of fun (filter, LFO, etc) Likewise with the envelopes

The CP-251 is useful for all sorts of things, but mainly massages CVs that are supplied by other gear. It's useful for scaling, inverting and mixing CVs.

I see the two as complimentary rather the an alternative. If you wish to impose pitch information or external envelopes on your
foogers, the LP with be useful. The CP-251 is a handy tool that I use with everything CV.

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Re: CV-out extension vs. CP-251

Post by stiiiiiiive » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:19 am

@Cliffman: did not know the CP did CV massages, that's a good point ;)

Aah guys both of you are saying buy both!. I think I prefer getting only one at first. Ahem... my bank manager as well.

By more possibilities, I meant the CP-251 has more CV-out, offering more independant modulations.
The CV-out extension has less but offers in exchanges the control through keyboard AND ARPEGIATTOR (I just have to have my value button fixed for that, which is a good point for CV-out installation: they would repair the LP at the same time).

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Re: CV-out extension vs. CP-251

Post by Portamental » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:04 am

Tough call... I would say get the CP-251 first, but if you must sent your LP to get something fixed (for what exactly?) then it probably would be best the other way around.

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Re: CV-out extension vs. CP-251

Post by stiiiiiiive » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:02 am

Portamental wrote:for what exactly?
I bought the LP with the "Value" encoder's press function broken. I knew it and accepted since the price was more than ok and it only would prevent me from activating the arpegiattor, renaming the programs further than the first letter and walking through the performance preset chains.

My Moog local workshop said in the worst case it could cost around 300 Euros because they may have to order the encoder's controller card and replace it. But I keep on shining my good vibes to the Universe so that they say to me "Oh you were right, this is just the microswitch. Replacing it will make you lighter by a 100 Euros". :)

I can live without the press stuff. However if I get the CV-out, I'm definitely willing to send some arpegiatted pitch voltage out!! I will have fixed only if/when I get the CV-out installed anyway.

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Re: CV-out extension vs. CP-251

Post by Portamental » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:43 am

I forgot about the arpegiator. I tried it a couple of time, but lost the arpegiated presets when I reverted back to the factory Tribute presets. Even though the LP is analog, I think i read the arpegiated notes are not send to midi, and by the same token, I wonder if the pitch out CV will show them at all. I wonder if someone here with a CV out LP can confirm this.

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Re: CV-out extension vs. CP-251

Post by stiiiiiiive » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:51 am

Regarding arpegios through MIDI, since OS version 3.1, you can select to transmit the notes as played on the keyboard or the notes as played by the arpegiattor.

Regarding CV, I remember having seen in the CV-out Moog demo some very cool arpegiated Foogers :)

I hope I did not dream them though...

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Re: CV-out extension vs. CP-251

Post by Portamental » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:01 am

stiiiiiiive wrote:I hope I did not dream them though...
Same here, I am trying to remember what I read and when, because in the end, it's the firmware that decides what the LP can do or not, and firmware sees new thing appearing with every version. Call me dinosaur if you like, I am pretty much dead set on leaving my LP on firmware 2.00s, the first version with the arpegiator.


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Re: CV-out extension vs. CP-251

Post by stiiiiiiive » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:07 am

Just kidding huh? ;) That was too tempting...

Here is the video. I cannot watch it again right now but offer the community the peace of mind haha.

About the MIDI issue, here is what the documentation coming with OS3.1 states:
SEND MIDI (ARP,KEYS,OFF) [Slim Phatty - (ARP,OFF)]: This setting controls the MIDI Note output from
the arpeggiator. ARP will output arpeggiated MIDI Notes while the arpeggiator is running. On the Little
Phatty, the KEYS setting will output the literal MIDI notes played on the LP keyboard while the arp is
running. OFF will output no MIDI notes while the arp is running.

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Re: CV-out extension vs. CP-251

Post by Portamental » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:17 am

OK, that clarifies the midi situation, but I still have a little tiny doubt on the CV out. I know, I know it does not make much sense.. but it's a Moog :mrgreen:

Edit : ok... always watch the video before writing things. Everything seems A-OK. Very good video btw, better than the usual. Gorgeous sounds and textures. Now I want it all.

Only one question remains (or three) : Where, Where, Where can I buy a LP already fitted with the CV outs ? ;)

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Re: CV-out extension vs. CP-251

Post by stiiiiiiive » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:04 am

Portamental wrote: Very good video btw, better than the usual. Gorgeous sounds and textures.
Isn't it? It used to be on the Moog website but I could not find it earlier.
Portamental wrote:Now I want it all.
I'm sorry about that :?
Portamental wrote:Only one question remains (or three) : Where, Where, Where can I buy a LP already fitted with the CV outs ? ;)
There is the Solar Edition, available there for instance, or the RedBack Edition, there. Those are two where-answers, the third one being 2nd hand market. Oh I wonder if you can find a new classic black LP with the modification though.
Last edited by stiiiiiiive on Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CV-out extension vs. CP-251

Post by Portamental » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:09 pm

OK, i'll take the blue one to match my keytar ;) Seriously, customs, broker fees, taxes, shipping all add-up to many hundreds. I prefer the Solar Edition of Sweetwater but it's an exclusive. I would settle for the red one, dunno if it is a Novak exclusive, but i'll press on the moog dealer in Mtl to order one, any color really ( plum would be nice :D ) even if I have to wait a bit.

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Re: CV-out extension vs. CP-251

Post by stiiiiiiive » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:07 am

Paint it yourself!! I saw some beautiful white Nord Lead and black Nord Electro lastly...

Is the said Mtl dealer the not-so-well-named MoogAudio?...

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