Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

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prog_keys
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Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by prog_keys » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:11 am

Decided to start playing around again with some pedals for my LP to try and come up with some new sounds. I play/write primarily in/for prog rock band (http://www.caprycon.com) and the LP handles most of the lead duties and occasional bass parts. For more aggressive leads I've got some patches on my Kurzweil PC3 that I use. Where I live in Australia, there are very few people who play Moog's live and none of the music stores stock Moog products, so I've already got a rather distinctive sound in our local music scene. After toying with the idea of using a laptop and some VST's to cover the Moog duties I've ended up coming back to the Moog rather than software (I know, I know :) ) and decided to go all out with turning the Moog into my distinctive lead instrument.

To that effect (pun half-intended) I decided to play around with some effects pedals and see how they affected the sounds. I got together some that I already had at home, some from the guitarist in my band and some from the secondhand pawnshop where I work. This is by no means a comprehensive test of different types of pedals, just me getting an idea of what pedals work, which don't and how they affect the sound (both good or bad) of my LP. I'm primarily interested in colouring the sound for Leads & Basses, rather than FX, so I need to retain most of the clarity and distinction of the original sound.

Some of the results of the test are likely to be unsurprising for longtime sound tinkerers, but for a relative newcomer like me, I found some of the results to be informative, and hopefully they will be of use to some of you as well.

Here's the list of pedals that I got together for the test.
(* denotes pedals I own)

TC Electronic - MojoMojo Overdrive
Biyang - OD-10 Mad Driver Overdrive
Danelectro - Cool Cat Metal
Line 6 - Uber Metal*
Electro-Harmonix - Metal Muff with Top Boost
MXR - Fullbore Metal
Devi Ever - Hyperion Fuzz*
TC Electronic - Vortex Flanger
Electro-Harmonix - Memory Toy Delay*

So yes, not a comprehensive list by any means, but a smattering of different pedals. I was mainly concerned with getting a more distorted/overdriven sound for the leads and basses so these were the pedals I focused on. The aim was more to see what type of pedals (Overdrive, Distortion, Fuzz etc) worked with the LP rather than assessing the different pedals themselves (though that still factored into the testing).

The setup:

LP -> Pedals (powered by a DC Brick, standard guitar pedalboard order) -> Yamaha MG12 Mixer -> EMES Pink TV Studio Monitors

Here's a quick run through about what I though of each pedal:

TC Electronic - MojoMojo Overdrive & Biyang - OD-10 Mad Driver Overdrive
To be honest, these two pedals had almost no affect on the LP sound, other than to change the tonal colour slightly, even with widely different settings. Now, I know the purpose of an overdrive is to overdrive a guitar amp, so I knew they wouldn't have much effect, but I was surprised by how little effect they had. I've sort of concluded that OD pedals aren't really suited for synths running direct, except for subtle tone changes. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong though :D

Danelectro - Cool Cat Metal
Did what you'd expect - made the LP leads sound like a relatively thin distorted guitar. Didn't do too badly in fattening up the bass though, definitely added a fair bit of balls to the sound.

Line 6 - Uber Metal*
Worst pedal out of all the ones I tried. Not sure if it because it's digital modelling, or its input impedance but it had very little volume and gain on tap and sounded very unpleasant. Not musical at all. Not recommended. Not a bad one for guitar though.

Electro-Harmonix - Metal Muff with Top Boost
Like the Cool Cat, this thickened up the Leads & Basses quite nicely, with tone controls balancing out some of the trebliness. The Top Boost feature sounded like it added a bit more higher harmonics into the processing and made the pedal sound a lot fuller. This pedal was the noisiest out of all the one I tried, adding quite a bit of background noise when I wasn't playing.

MXR - Fullbore Metal
This one seemed like it had a much narrower range of sounds than the Metal Muff and as the name suggests, it's pretty much designed for a single type of distortion and seems less suited for synths than the other distortion pedals. Still, it didn't sound too bad and definitely had a major impact of the sound of the LP.

Devi Ever - Hyperion Fuzz*
This is one of the craziest pedals I've ever used with guitar. Capable of producing insane fuzz/distortion textures while remaining on the edge of musicality. On the LP, this one actually sounds... pretty good. Fattens up and distorts Leads quite nicely, without being too trebly. It also works wonder on bass, making a nice fat fuzzy distorted sound, while retaining a reasonable amount of low end girth. Most people seems to agree that fuzz pedals are the best for synths and this certainly seems to support the case. Definitely one to have a play around with.

TC Electronic - Vortex Flanger
I borrowed this from my guitarist to have a play with. Sounds pretty cool on the LP, a wide variety of sounds on tap. Actually works pretty well after a distortion pedal. Which is exactly how the guitarist in my band uses it. Not a bad pedal, but a flanger's not particularly high on my list of pedals to get, and the lowpass filter on the LP beats a flanger any day for sweeping effects.

Electro-Harmonix - Memory Toy Delay*
This is the first pedal i got for the LP, and it's pretty much always on. I love the sound of the delay of this pedal with the LP, it just fattens up the sound beautifully and adds a wonderful sense of space. I know most people have their favorite delay pedal, and there are many better ones out there, but i love this sound of this one and am not in any real hurry to try out new ones.

Well, that's it. A rather not-too-scientific experiment to see what happens when you plug your LP into some guitar pedals. However, since it was an experiment, there should be some conclusion (Warning: Opinions may vary).
1. Overdrives on synth are pretty useless, unless you are running them into an amp of some sort.
2. Distortion pedals (especially metal-type pedals) work OK on the LP, but are reasonably limited in the tone they impart on the synth. Each pedal seems to have it's own distinctive tone, so you'll have to try a few out to find one you like.
3. Fuzz pedals = goodness :D
4. Flangers - YMMV, depends what you're after.
5. Delays - personal preferences ok, but you can't really go wrong with analog.

There you go. A rather haphazard look at some pedals that i was able to get my hands on, and what they can do to your Little Phatty's sound. In the interest of full disclosure, while doing these tests I went ahead and ordered two pedals specifically for the LP, on the strength of youtube demos, review and wish power. The first is a TC Electronic Corona Chorus pedal, which I'm hoping will fatten up the sound of the LP without being too chorusy (the demos show that it can do this quite well on guitar - I'm hoping it works just as well on synth). The other pedal seems to be one of the more popular fuzz pedal choices for synths at the moment, the Zvex Mastotron. With it's variable impedance input, it seems pretty suited to synths and I've read a few report of people using it with synths with great success. I'm looking forward muchly to getting these and playing with them.

Well, if you've gotten to here and you're still reading, Well Done! I hope you've found something interesting reading this, otherwise you've probably wasted some of your time. In all seriousness though, there's not a huge amount of information about using different effects pedals with synths, so I hope my own experiments will be of benefit to someone who is looking to mangle the sound of their LP.

Good night and thanks for reading!

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David Smyth
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Re: Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by David Smyth » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:53 am

Hello there from across the ditch!

This is an interesting read for me as the only pedals I've ran my phattys through are a Boss RC-20XL Loop Station and a Boss GEB-7 bass EQ.

You've given me an idea about trying the phattys through an EHX Big Muff Fuzz Pedal.. I could do with one for Bass Guitar too!

For synth effects I've been using a Korg KP3 Kaoss Pad (mainly delay, reverb & EQ) which I also use for sampling/looping. The KP3 is digital though and I'd really like a good analog delay at some stage to run the Moogs though - I wish the m104z was still in production! :(

Thanks for taking the time to test and share this information! :D

Regards,
David Smyth
NZ
Minimoog Voyager XL, Little Phatty Stage II + CV Output Mod, 2x Slim Phatty, Minitaur, MP-201, EP-2, 2x CP-251, MF-102, MF-104M, MF-107

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Voltor07
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Re: Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by Voltor07 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:12 am

I run my Taurus through a EHX #1 Echo. Amazing results! :twisted:
Minitaur, CP-251, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Pyramid stereo power amp, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ, dot com modular.

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Assar
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Re: Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by Assar » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:15 am

Interesting!

I have an old Line6 POD 2.0 I sometimes run my LP through. Several effects and amp/cabinet simulations.
It's a great additional companion for the LP!
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Little Phatty TE #1045 | Etherwave Theremin
Stockholm, Sweden - - - Listen at: assar.se

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by stiiiiiiive » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:23 am

Thanks for that test, Prog Keys :)

To add a little information, here are some pedales I have used with synths so far -not only the LP though.

EHX Cathedral: well, you know… that reverb is so cool. With respect to Prog Keys' will to modify the spectral content, this one can be cool when set to the minimal reverb time and over 50% wet. You can get some curiously spaced, sweetened leads. In stereo. Not true bypass, I think.

MF-104z: well you know… that delay :) However I think useful to precise that this one really dampens the echoes. I was a bit disapointed at first because I could not get feedback madness from it. Since then I got used to it and I am now able to do so. Keep in mind it is a very soft, musical device. Feedback can fill the room space but it is agressive in no way.
A few weeks before I fell on the MF opportunity, I had purchased another delay device, whic I received a few weeks later : the…

EHX Deluxe Memory Man w/ TT: this one is crazier, no doubt about it. True bypass. Less dampening has your feedback starting in a second. Better suited for live with tap tempo, time subdivisions, and instant feedback ramp. Sounds very cool, not sure it equals a pure DMM though. I haven't practiced that much since I fell in love with the MF sound…

Tech 21 Tri AC: you get guitarish sounds out of your synth with the Tri Ac. Three presets, (true) bypassable, simple yet very well though. I love it.

EHX LPB 2ube: not an effect but a preamp. The channel gang mode provide an overdrive I found a bit harsh. Give some body to digital synths.

EHX Germanium 4 Pi: (Yeah… I'm a EHX boy…) I recevied that one last week and try it only with guitar and a Nord Lead so far. The overdrive is good for synths, really. Regarding the distorsion, I only tried it with synth in a experimental session yesterday. You can cut down the voltage applied to the distorsion in order to get that fuzzy low battery sound. So I set this one at a 25%, with reasonable gain and fed the EHX with a long released pad. Playing with the filter and the volume led to some really interseting sounds, between boat horns and Vangelis' Chariots of Fire brassy pads. Pretty cool.

EHX Freeze: this one is in it's own category. Bought it last year, barely used it. Still, I know it's useful with any monosynth for having pseudo duophonic solos. I don't think it is a true-bypass.

EHX Big Muff Pi: I flash-tried it. My guitarsit uses it, I love it on guitar sonce it is really playing-reactive, but synths don't seem to drive it the same way. Deserves a better test though...

Voilà! :)

prog_keys
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Re: Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by prog_keys » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:26 am

@stiiiiiiive - You definitely sound like an EHX fan boy :D ... which isn't a bad thing at all, they make really good pedals. I was thinking about the Germanium 4 Pi for overdrive type leads. I guess once I've got the Mastotron I'll need to decide if I want more sounds.

There seems to pretty widespread agreement that the standard Big Muff is not the best for synths, but some of the other versions that ehx does are pretty good on synths sounds. I guess it depends what sort of sound you're looking to get out it.

Some of the verbs sound interesting, probably worth looking into.

There seems to be plenty of possibilities for sonically screwing around with the LP. It'll be good for people to list what they tried and works (or doesn't) as it can save hours of hunting around the webs for information that doesn't always exist.

Thanks for the replies so far, and keep those pedal suggestions coming!

Share it with the world!!! :D

keef321
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Re: Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by keef321 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:33 am

Hi Prog Keys,

I know that you have moved away from the computer setup to an extent, but have you tried putting your phatty through some DAW effects etc?

I don't do any prog stuff, so I may well be way of the mark here, but I have found running the phatty through the effects in Ableton Live can give some really good results. An example of this is pushing a flanger like mad, this together with the phatty overdrive pushed far really makes it scream :-), you can hear this on the second chorus of my tune via http://soundcloud.com/destination-b/frozen The first chorus being dry.

It's most probably not your type of music at all, being electro style drum & bass, but I am really impressed with how I can make the sound much more unique and individual (on this example it is a bit more extreme I will admit).

Enjoy!!

prog_keys
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Re: Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by prog_keys » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:06 am

Hi keef321.

Yeah I've done some stuff running my keyboards through the computer for effects, I've got some cool spectralising plugins by Michael Norris that are great for turning keyboard sounds into awesome atmospheric pads. My main requirement for the effects though, were that they had to be something I could use live without any hassles. I setup a synth rig on a decent Lenovo Thinkpad, but it wasn't reliable enough for me to use it live, and I don't really want to take my Macbook Pro out with me (plus its a bit too cluttered with stuff at the moment).

The suggestions well warranted though, and there's heaps of stuff you can do with software effects that are really cool. I'm just a bit of a fan of hardware gadgets (general gear lust syndrome) :D , but that's not to say there is anything wrong with the software route, and I tend to use that stuff more when I'm doing production stuff.

keef321
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Re: Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by keef321 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:27 pm

Hi prog keys,

No probs,please do post what you decide on :-) I must admit you do feel safer with hardware,less worries about crashing and the obvious potential bonus of flashing lights!! We all want more of them :-)

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Re: Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by ricknboogie » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:10 pm

There's nothing better than a string of stomp boxes between a Phatty and a sound system. I use a trio of analog Maxon modulation effects, chorus, phaser, and flanger, all to great effect. But a good old digital delay is used most of all, along with a sweet EHX Black Finger compressor, which adds alot of girth to my synth sounds. There really are no rules, and experimenting is always best- but what a blast it is to stomp on a whirling phaser while playing some crazy sound out of a Moog synth. That's living.

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Re: Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by Voltor07 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:17 pm

My favorite phaser is the MF-103. My favorite distortion pedal is the Danelectro Fab Tone. The Dan-o-Wah is pretty cool, too! I love Danelectro pedals, especially the older ones that don't look like insects. :lol:
Minitaur, CP-251, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Pyramid stereo power amp, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ, dot com modular.

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Re: Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by Johnny Rāšā » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:49 pm

I use Metasonix TM2 or TM7 with my slimphatty tm2 make it much bigger, but not harsh at all, even sweater, i don't really know how to say i would say maybe plastic, but in a very wird and good sense.
TM7 is a very different kind of beast, it makes the SP bigger too, heavier and very violent, or go in very stange tsound territories, like a very different synth. plug it in a good old fender bassman and you can kill any guitarist trying to be louder than you... you can even kill the drummer...;)
If i were richer i woul probaby own any metasonix gear.
I use also a EHX polyphase sometimes for "ambiant" partsand it is mono in stereo out.
a strymon blue sky reverb, a boss re20 delay and EHX metalmuff.
All my effects are plugged from the aux-outs to tracks of my mixer.

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xombiexplox
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Re: Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by xombiexplox » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:51 pm

I tried using a Little Phatty through an EH Memory Man and Memory Boy at a local music store the other day, and it honestly sounded like adding delay to a trash compactor.

I don't know if I was doing something wrong or if both of them were defective pedals, but they sounded awful!Didn't even sound like a synth, just garbled noise!
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stiiiiiiive
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Re: Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by stiiiiiiive » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:10 pm

xombiexplox wrote:I tried using a Little Phatty through an EH Memory Man and Memory Boy at a local music store the other day, and it honestly sounded like adding delay to a trash compactor.
Which Memory Man are we talking about here? Classic? Hazarai? Tap Tempo?

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Re: Little Phatty & Guitar Pedals - Testing

Post by Johnny Rāšā » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:37 pm

maybe the LP or SP out is too hot for these pedals... th'at's why i use aux for effects so so i can get inat the level the effect like. and i can use them on different instruments...

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