SP/LP Stability -- Considering purchase, any advice?

[EDIN AZIZ 5000]

Hi Moogers,

I've always wanted a Moog in my setup, and now that I finally can afford a piece of Moog gear, there are all of these horror stories regarding the products that are kind of scaring me from making a purchase. I'd really hate to get an SP or LP and face these same problems you guys have been facing, and ending up returning it. So -- there hasn't been any new software/firmware update since June of this year (to either of the pieces), and yet people are constantly complaining about sync, freeze, dropout, glitch, note on/off (though most reports are in regards to korg gear). Ok long introduction, I'm sorry -- The main question here would be; are either of these devices safe/stable enough for a purchase? The device in question would be used in studio only. It would be sequenced through Ableton before final recording. I'd rather like to buy the SP since I have enough keyboards to control it with. But again -- the SP takes longer to warm up and there are more reports about bugs pertaining to out of tune and things of that nature. The LP, in my opinion, isn't worth the difference in price, since both produce the same sound.

So, would you recommend the purchase and the subsequent (potential?) headache -- or should I perhaps wait for a more stable OS?

[praxisaxis]

It appears that some people have had problems, but others do not.... I have an LP which is solid as a rock - never had a real problem. The build quality is great too. But I can't deny the glitchy reports turning up here though. Must be bad for business..... However, many of the problems reported here have relatively simple fixes, and a few are user error.

I find that the LP is an instrument, not just a device. For that reason I can't imagine it without a keyboard... however if you're really only going to use it in the studio then a SP is all you need.

If you haven't used analogue synths before, keep in mind their quirks when deciding on purchasing. The sound is generated by the circuitry itself, (rather than being held as digital data). The upshot is that it's very organic - requires warming up, tuning, and the fact it has presets doesn't mean you get a completely identical sound from one session to the next. In fact over time as you get used to changing the parameters you may largely stop using presets. These particular synths have no onboard effects, so they're very raw or pure - no bells and whistles. I know most people know this but occasionally here you get noobs complaining about the synth being out of tune, etc.

[stiiiiiiive]

My first cent: get a slim phatty from a store which has a clear and easy return policy.

My second cent: you will certainly read more posts saying that such or such problem occured than posts saying that everything is allright.

[dan thacker]

You have to realize that most of these problems resolve themselves when the person investigates further.I have embarrassed myself a few times posting a "problem",only to find i overlooked something silly.Don't get me wrong,there are legitimate concerns,but don't let that prevent you from owning the coolest gear available.

[David Smyth]

Hey there,

I am one of the people who posts an issue up here every now and then. But most of these relate to midi-chaining multiple phatty units together for polyphony/stacking, which is more complex than running one phatty by itself. For example, a current thread you've probably seen: http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopi ... =7&t=12483 only applys when chaining the units together, and if I was to use the SP by itself, there would be no issue at all - I could just tune that SP to sound good by itself and save patches which sound right on that one unit. Even with things like this I'm confident it will be resolved as the Moog staff know what they're talking about and are very helpful.

So pretty much what I'm trying to say is that the units are reliable (in my case anyway), but as my system gets more complex, there's bound to be a few more things that need to be ironed out. Overall it's working out very nicely and I'm very happy with my Moog gear.

Regards,
David Smyth
New Zealand

[cliffman]

I would second what folks above have said. I use an LP and various Foogers, and they have been mostly reliable,
if i add up breakage over the last few years, there have been about 4 moog failures vs 3 of other boxen.
Of course I don't run CV into those boxen, so I would say they live in a gentler world, electrically speaking.
And quite stable - my problems have all been things that were dead .

When I have had problems/failures Moog service has been excellent. Perhaps due to the size, it's quite easy to have direct
contact with a service person on the phone, I've never had a bad experience with them. So i think it balances out, maybe tiny bit more
issues but much better support when the issues happen.
If you do get the SP, you can argue on-line with the people who are writing the next OS release, instead of just waiting for it.

[moogslob]

After using older Moogs for many years, I got the LP- Other than a non-sound-affecting issue (data readout screen went odd a couple of times), the LP was very reliable- It was a tank, being drug with no case to many late night sets, all over the place...- It fell off the back of my Wurlitzer (I'm embarrassed to say) quite a few times, and was unfazed- The silent majority of LP users have no problems, and thus have no reason to post- Do your sound a flavor favor and don't go digital!

[Polop]

With the korg kronos i can't use my slim phatty when the workstation is master midi synchro, constantly stuck, hang notes, all my others units work fine, the phatty has a big bug.

[stiiiiiiive]

This:

The silent majority of LP users have no problems, and thus have no reason to post-

and this:

i can't use my slim phatty when the workstation is master midi synchro, constantly stuck, hang notes, all my others units work fine, the phatty has a big bug

is exactly what I meant.

[Spartan X]

I used to own a Moog LP back in 2007 and it was one of the most stable synths I have had worked with. You could feel the quality when playing it and I missed it badly when I ran into trouble and had to sell it.

Now I have had a Moog SP in my studio for two days and love it a lot. Like you I first hesistated to buy one because of the "issues" people were having with tuning and stuck notes. But the positive experience I had with the LP and the fact that Amos is here on the forum to help solving problems when he can convinced me to give it a shot. So far I've had zero problems - but then again - I have only had it for two days. The only thing that bugs me a bit is the warm up time to make it stable (around 30-40 min). I have owned quite a few analog synths (both vintage and new) and none of them have required that much time to get stabilized. I guess it's something I will get used to and remember to turn the SP on some time before I'm going to use it. No biggy really.

My advice is; buy and don't worry. If you run into problems it's usually easily solved and if not Moog will help you. In my experience they are nice to deal with.

[Polop]

Hi, And this bug is very known, many users wait a fix but moog do not communicate on the next firmware

[muksys]

LP: Stable, solid, awesomely badass!

SP: Stable, solid, awesomely badass!

Only issue with the SP is it does not have a dedicated keyboard, so there may be compatibility issues with older MIDI keyboards. At the core of both synths is analog circuitry. There are no bugs there. At the digital level, well, digital has bugs no matter who the manufacturer is. Also, the SP takes a bit longer to "warm up" than the LP. But, most issues (from what I have read) are MIDI based which could be the synth, but, probably just user error (myself included). My LP, is rock farging solid! I love every farging minute that I play it! Get out to the store and buy one now! DO IT!!

[e3p0]

Is there a way you can go to a store and try one?
Only you can make the decision. That said, I bought one (LP stage II) sight unseen, and have no regrets. Like any other gear, there is a learning curve and getting to know the quirks/ ins-and-outs. In minutes I was in love. Try then buy. Or just buy. I have yet to dive deep into the MIDI, but the LP is VERY user friendly. Sure the knob/ function ratio could be better, but this thing is well worth the price of admission.
-e

[Voltor07]

Is there a way you can go to a store and try one?
Only you can make the decision. That said, I bought one (LP stage II) sight unseen, and have no regrets. Like any other gear, there is a learning curve and getting to know the quirks/ ins-and-outs. In minutes I was in love. Try then buy. Or just buy. I have yet to dive deep into the MIDI, but the LP is VERY user friendly. Sure the knob/ function ratio could be better, but this thing is well worth the price of admission.
-e

e3p0, you nailed my thoughts almost exactly! I walked into Sam Ash one day, and saw the LP display there. This was amost 5 years ago. I didn't know anything about synthesis, or reading music, but I always wanted an analog synth. I played with a Microkorg for about 10 minutes. I played with the LP for about an hour! Three visits and two weeks later on a rainy day, I finally bought my LP, an Alesis sumo 15, and an X-stand for $1465.89 after tax. I traded the amp for something with more bass, and later got a Z-stand, but I LOVE my Little Phatty, and would NEVER trade it for ANYTHING!

Having said that, I am waiting for the SP bugs to be worked out before I buy one...and eventually three...of them.

[zerocrossing]

You have to realize that most of these problems resolve themselves when the person investigates further.I have embarrassed myself a few times posting a "problem",only to find i overlooked something silly.Don't get me wrong,there are legitimate concerns,but don't let that prevent you from owning the coolest gear available.

It's true. I did that when it appeared I was having a very odd problem with my SP that I didn't have with any other of my synths, but it was just some odd state my MIDI controller had gotten into. I made sure I went back and edited the post though. So far the SP has been pretty solid. My only "issue" is that I get much closer to a real sawtooth if I'm somewhere between triangle and sawtooth. Maybe it needs some calibration... not sure, but it's really not a problem.