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Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

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Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby pedrogoya » Wed May 11, 2011 7:22 am

Hey Moogers!

It's the first time I'm owning a Moog synthesizer and I must say I'm loving the sound, although I'm having some thoughts about the slim phatty witch makes me wonder if this product is a little "too limited" compared to other products in the same price range.

Well, first of all I wasn't expecting such a small preset bank. I know I have the ability to generate different sound types through modulation, but a little bigger preset bank wouldn't harm anyone! :D

Secondly, and as I am new to Moog Products I have the impression that I am missing something on SP.

My issues in this very correct moment are:

1: In the "Preset" mode, when changing a sound and storing it, I can only do it, re-writing or deleting the old preset sound? :?
2: When using arpeggio in Internal Sync mode with the same BPM's it never goes straight with my Daw sound...
3: Am I missing anything in the MASTER MODE? As far as I understood, It's a "behaviour" menu where I control the Moog response for all the presets?
4: Can I (for example) connect my Clavia Nord 2x to some of the inputs of Moog and generate different sound textures for my clavia? (Never tried this before)
5: Why can't I find the SINE Waveform in the Oscillators?


Sorry if I did any lame question, but I am a Moog "virgin", so I need to clear up some issues so I can give proper use to the product!
Wish you all a nice day! If you have any tips...I'm listening!
:D

Pedro Goya
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Re: Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby Kenneth » Wed May 11, 2011 1:40 pm

pedrogoya wrote:

My issues in this very correct moment are:

1: In the "Preset" mode, when changing a sound and storing it, I can only do it, re-writing or deleting the old preset sound? :?
2: When using arpeggio in Internal Sync mode with the same BPM's it never goes straight with my Daw sound...
3: Am I missing anything in the MASTER MODE? As far as I understood, It's a "behaviour" menu where I control the Moog response for all the presets?
4: Can I (for example) connect my Clavia Nord 2x to some of the inputs of Moog and generate different sound textures for my clavia? (Never tried this before)
5: Why can't I find the SINE Waveform in the Oscillators?


as far as using the arp on the Phatty in a DAW, I too am at a loss. I own a Little Phatty and have had no luck getting my arpeggiator to function in time with my DAW. However, I belive the new OS 3.1 fixed this problem though I haven't tried it myself yet.

Moog synthesizers typically do not have sine waveform for the VCO, but you can create one yourself by turning the VCF resonance up to 11-2 o clock, and tweaking the cutoff frequency until you hear the "sweetspot"

Sorry if I did any lame question, but I am a Moog "virgin", so I need to clear up some issues so I can give proper use to the product!
Wish you all a nice day! If you have any tips...I'm listening!
:D

Pedro Goya
I don't own anything that would make you jealous.
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Re: Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby Sore_Knee » Wed May 11, 2011 2:37 pm

I've got a story for you (and this is dead set true). My partners friend saw my LPII in the lounge room. she wanted me to punch out a song and sing with just the LP (which i declined, i don't like performing to an audience and i can't sing for poop). but i gave her the head-phones and told her to hit some keys, press some buttons and turn some knobs.

she hit a key expecting a singing orchestra to fill her head with music, but only heard a strange buzzing sound. she was bitterly disappointed and wondered why i paid so much for something so boring.

so i asked her "what did you expect?", she responded "i expected music" and she put the headphones down.

eh, what do i care. it makes A good sound, and it's fun and easy.
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Re: Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby Amos » Wed May 11, 2011 3:49 pm

any reason you guys are not using MIDI sync when trying to line up arpeggiator with DAW? That's what I do, it works great. I would never expect any two things to keep time with each other if they are not synced to the same clock signal.

As for sinus, you can also use Triangle wave form and lower the filter cutoff until the upper harmonics are removed. It's very similar (or for non-melodic sine waves, turn oscillator 1 and 2 level to zero, filter resonance to maximum, use filter cutoff frequency to set frequency of sine...this is a true sine wave).

your questions in some order:

1) you can save presets as sysEx (to your computer) if you want to gather more than 100... or you can use Phatty Editor/Librarian software, also to store more than the 100 presets available inside the synth. Otherwise, yes you must save over an existing preset to save a new one. There must be some presets you don't like as much as the others...

2)really, try sending clock from your DAW and set arpeggiator mode to MIDI CLOCK. I find it works well enough for real production and performance.

3) mostly it is this, yes (global and master functions on MASTER menus). There is one main exception, "ADVANCED PRESET." Everything on this menu is saved per-preset. So make changes on Advanced Preset (it will affect the currently-active preset), then go back to PRESET mode and press Store to save those changes.

4)YES! Connect Clavia Nord line output to Phatty Line input... connect a "dummy plug" (an unused patch cord) to the GATE input on the Phatty, and turn the Phatty Osc1 and Osc2 LEVEL to zero... turn volume envelope Decay to zero... now you are all ready to process polyphonic clavia sound through the Moog filter and overload circuits... it's great. :) For simplicity, you can save an "external audio" preset with the above settings, for quick recall.

5) answered at top.

I hope this helps! The Phatty is not a "do everything" instrument. It's a "do several simple things amazingly well" instrument. At least, that's my goal for it...
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Re: Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby nikola » Wed May 11, 2011 5:56 pm

Sore_Knee wrote:I've got a story for you (and this is dead set true). My partners friend saw my LPII in the lounge room. she wanted me to punch out a song and sing with just the LP (which i declined, i don't like performing to an audience and i can't sing for poop). but i gave her the head-phones and told her to hit some keys, press some buttons and turn some knobs.

she hit a key expecting a singing orchestra to fill her head with music, but only heard a strange buzzing sound. she was bitterly disappointed and wondered why i paid so much for something so boring.

so i asked her "what did you expect?", she responded "i expected music" and she put the headphones down.

eh, what do i care. it makes A good sound, and it's fun and easy.


:lol:

great story!

At the time i bought my LP, i had a band, it was nice and easy to play some twisted melody lines on top of the drums, bass and guitar :) but now I'm all by my self, sometimes i just cant find music in my brain, and i think to my self : well, maybe it is time to buy some drum samples or something. Maybe a new peace of gear.

It is so depressing being uncreative. I hate those days :)

EDIT

Your story remind me of me pressing keys, hearing sound, but not really hearing music in sound, so i realized that more i hear in simple sounds (guitar, piano, synth, doesn't really matter) the better i am in crating music.
was i pushed or did i fall ?
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Re: Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby pedrogoya » Wed May 11, 2011 8:55 pm

Hey, thank you all for the response.

Well, I never intended to say that I'm unhappy with LP. The sound is completely wicked and powerful. I order it with one purpose only...Basslines!

I found Amos reply very useful, as I've tried everything explained before, and now everything is working perfectly. :idea:
The Clavia sound passing through the SP circuit...jesus...just got FAT! :twisted:

Lfo & Arp are now working in tune with the Daw :D

PS - No larger soundbanks | presets are sold separately? No extra presets as a gift or as update? Think about that...as I still think the presets are way way too short for a product of this price range.

Despite all this. I love Moog Sound! Ouch!
:D
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Re: Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby Amos » Thu May 12, 2011 7:32 am

there are at least 300 more Phatty sounds for you...
Each edition has got its own unique sound bank: LP Tribute Edition, Stage, Stage II, and now Slim Phatty.
To send the sounds to your Phatty, all you need is a program that can send SysEx files via MIDI.
I'll post some links to the files, and instructions, in a little while.
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Re: Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby Sir Nose » Thu May 12, 2011 8:01 am

In addition to it's bass balls, I think, the Phatties excels at smooth parameter changes while playing. There is no jumpyness or glitch mess when adjusting things while sound is being produced.

If sending parameter changes from a midi sequencer and you hear any stepping where smoothness is desired, don't forget the Phatties respond to 14-bit high resolution midi messages. That should be almost as smooth as the Phatty's knobs.
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Re: Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby tript » Thu May 12, 2011 9:29 am

You can always go old school, which has zero banks. But, you know, that is terrible considering the price range.
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Re: Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby djfood » Thu May 12, 2011 11:30 am

hey bro, this is not the Phatty at all !!! it's only the "LITTLE" phatty :P :P
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Re: Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby Amos » Thu May 12, 2011 11:59 am

OK, all jokes aside...

Here are hundreds of factory presets for Phatty:

http://seamslikereality.com/moog/Phatty_Sounds.zip

There are complete 100-sound banks (which will replace all sounds in your Phatty),
and also some collections of individual preset files (which will only replace the currently-active preset when sent).

It is true, though... part of the reason there are not 1000's of sounds built in, is because a very important aspect of using this instrument is to change the sound yourself, using the knobs! It's so easy and there is infinite variety... make the sound your own. :-)

Best,

Amos
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Re: Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby keef321 » Fri May 13, 2011 5:08 pm

I agree with Amos. I have been using softsynths and spent much time searching through 1000's of presets trying to find the right sound. I was at first suprised at the lack of presets on the phatty, but after just a couple of weeks of owning a phatty, and being pretty much still a beginer, I'm amazed at the sounds that I have been able to make, within relatively a small amount of time. The presets for me have become starting points, or something to learn from.

I have already got the confidence to start replacing some of the presets with my own sounds :-) . I have surprised myself as I was originally thinking of getting the vst or midi editor so I could save my presets on the computer, so to leave the original presets intact. But the phatty just begs to be tweaked, rather than Be a preset machine. My synth of choice is normally ni massive, which I find the raw oscillators by themselves to not sound thr best, you need to modulate them a lot and apply fx to get a good sound. I still think the sounds from ni massive are well, massive, It's fantastic at what it does. the phatty sounds totally different, therefore they are good companions for each other, but I do find the raw oscillators on the phatty sound immediately great :-) as they are, and the filter is just great. I find it easier to get results quicker with the Phatty, but they are different beasts.
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Re: Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby pedrogoya » Fri May 13, 2011 5:57 pm

Amos, can you help with the sysex "sender" program.
I dunno witch kind of application should I use to send over the soundbank you've sent me.
Can I use the app that came with the CD in the SP?

Please let me know
And thank you for the great help!

Pedro Goya
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Re: Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby pedrogoya » Fri May 13, 2011 6:01 pm

Sorry for another reply.

I've unzipped the folder with the presets. It smells good already...but can I send them ALL to the SP, or I have to stick to a preset bank?

What are the "individual" presests? A bit confused now...

Sorry!

Thank You :D
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Re: Slim Phatty = Too Limited or am I Too Lazy?

Postby Amos » Fri May 13, 2011 6:33 pm

use SysEx Librarian as sysex "sender" for Mac OSX (there is a little program called "SysEx" for older mac OS)
use MidiOx for Windows. I included a couple of help files which should explain more.

the larger files ("factorysounds") are full banks of 100 presets to send at once.
There are some zipped folders in there with individual sounds... these are each a single preset,
if you send a single preset sysex to your Phatty, it will replace whichever preset is currently active on the Phatty.

Hope this helps!

-Amos

edit: I think I get your question now... no you can't send every blessed one of the presets and have them all on there at once, alas. Limit 100 presets in memory at any one time. Sorry!
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