Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

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Sir Nose
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Sir Nose » Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:43 pm

vertibration wrote:So just to be clear, this Ableton Live/SLim Phatty stcuk note problem hasnt been fixed with the firmware update for me. I tried a few different set ups, and it lasts for about 5 minutes before freaking out in Ableton.
Is the phatty in a midi loop with Live or just Live midi out to phatty midi in?
If in a loop make sure the phatty's local control is off and if you are tweaking away you might want to try 14-bit CCs off. With lots of tweaks Live might be choking on the stream.

geoscience
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by geoscience » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:22 pm

Very quickly, just be sure that midi overdub is not active when recording/ playback in Live. It causes a "stuck note" type of behavior if midi merge is turned on, on the Phatty. Anybody else notice this?

-Geoscience

newtoslim
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by newtoslim » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:54 pm

Hi People.

I am a Newcomer here (albeit a synth veteran, and a long time Moog user).

I plan buying a Slim Phatty over the next few weeks.

I will need it strictly for LIVE use. It will be controlled by kurzweil (pc3k) and GEM (s3) masterkeyboards through a trivial thru box. No midi-over-usb is involved, no computer, no sequencer, no midi daisychaining, no midi cc output or recording. I plan heavy use of aftertouch, of midi cc#1 controller, and POSSIBLY of a breath controller.

So, the SP WILL get a healthy dose of midi messages. And that will happen in a live situation.

I have read good reviews of the SP, I have tried it and it sounds nice, and the warm-up tuning issues are not a problem for me [I have been using synths whose tuning involved soldering irons... LIVE! :roll: ], but I have been slightly alarmed by the "stuck notes" debate (in some way it sounds like the infamous "kronos keyboards" quarrel).

I need to ask you people a fair, updated, and SYNTHETIC assesment of the "stuck notes" situation.

Is something which should put me off using the SP LIVE for some time?

I need a reliable instrument (I will use it live for replicating a slimmed-down :wink: , easily portable version of some lead patches I play with a modular synth in the studio).

I have no much patience for "Fanboys-vs-OccupyMusicIndustry" debates.

I just ask the professional users here if they recommend the SP in its CURRENT state, if they recommend WAITING some time, or what, reliability-wise.

thanks a lot

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Voltor07
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Voltor07 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:58 am

Welcome, newtoslim. I can tell you that personally, I am waiting to see how this latest update pans out before considering the purchase of one or more SP's. I don't believe there has been enough time for the latest update to be tested appropriately. Just MHO.
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

joe_moog
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by joe_moog » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:10 pm

This update is still Windows-only, correct?
Sub 37 • Voyager Select Whitewash/Lunar White • VX-351 • Little Phatty Stage II w/CV out • Slim Phatty (x3)
MF-101 • MF-102 • MF-104SD • MF-103 • CP-251 • MF-108M • MF-105M
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muksys
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by muksys » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:31 pm

joe_moog wrote:This update is still Windows-only, correct?
both Mac/PC: http://moogmusic.com/products/phattys/s ... nloads-tab

joe_moog
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by joe_moog » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:47 pm

muksys wrote:
joe_moog wrote:This update is still Windows-only, correct?
both Mac/PC: http://moogmusic.com/products/phattys/s ... nloads-tab
...unless I'm reading something incorrectly, that's the older (latest official) update, not the one Amos had posted earlier in this thread
Sub 37 • Voyager Select Whitewash/Lunar White • VX-351 • Little Phatty Stage II w/CV out • Slim Phatty (x3)
MF-101 • MF-102 • MF-104SD • MF-103 • CP-251 • MF-108M • MF-105M
Moog Pocket Protector

Sir Nose
Posts: 1024
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:15 am

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Sir Nose » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:06 pm

newtoslim wrote:Hi People.

I am a Newcomer here (albeit a synth veteran, and a long time Moog user).

I plan buying a Slim Phatty over the next few weeks.

I will need it strictly for LIVE use. It will be controlled by kurzweil (pc3k) and GEM (s3) masterkeyboards through a trivial thru box. No midi-over-usb is involved, no computer, no sequencer, no midi daisychaining, no midi cc output or recording. I plan heavy use of aftertouch, of midi cc#1 controller, and POSSIBLY of a breath controller.

So, the SP WILL get a healthy dose of midi messages. And that will happen in a live situation.

I have read good reviews of the SP, I have tried it and it sounds nice, and the warm-up tuning issues are not a problem for me [I have been using synths whose tuning involved soldering irons... LIVE! :roll: ], but I have been slightly alarmed by the "stuck notes" debate (in some way it sounds like the infamous "kronos keyboards" quarrel).

I need to ask you people a fair, updated, and SYNTHETIC assesment of the "stuck notes" situation.

Is something which should put me off using the SP LIVE for some time?

I need a reliable instrument (I will use it live for replicating a slimmed-down :wink: , easily portable version of some lead patches I play with a modular synth in the studio).

I have no much patience for "Fanboys-vs-OccupyMusicIndustry" debates.

I just ask the professional users here if they recommend the SP in its CURRENT state, if they recommend WAITING some time, or what, reliability-wise.

thanks a lot
Unless you are using software or external hardware to translate the midi CC number, you will be out of luck with aftertouch as the phattys do not respond to CC1. Nor can it be internally mapped. Hopefully, the aftertouch of your controller can be mapped to a different CC.
See the OS 3.1 addendum for the most up to date CC list. It is in the zip file of the OS download.

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Voltor07
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Voltor07 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:10 pm

The Phatty series do not have aftertouch. You need a Voyager RME for that. :)
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

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muksys
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by muksys » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:27 pm

joe_moog wrote:
muksys wrote:
joe_moog wrote:This update is still Windows-only, correct?
both Mac/PC: http://moogmusic.com/products/phattys/s ... nloads-tab
...unless I'm reading something incorrectly, that's the older (latest official) update, not the one Amos had posted earlier in this thread
My mistake. You are correct. I only had an SP briefly before I returned it for an LP so I haven't been keeping in the loop on sv of the SP.

newtoslim
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:25 pm

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by newtoslim » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:23 am

Sir Nose wrote:Unless you are using software or external hardware to translate the midi CC number, you will be out of luck with aftertouch as the phattys do not respond to CC1. Nor can it be internally mapped. Hopefully, the aftertouch of your controller can be mapped to a different CC. See the OS 3.1 addendum for the most up to date CC list. It is in the zip file of the OS download.
CC1 is "modulation wheel", not "aftertouch" (which is not one of the midi CCs in the narrow sense).

If I got it right, then

SP receives cc#1

SP doesn't receive aftertouch.

Well, I could map aftertouch through the midisolutions "event processor" I currently use for the doepfer modular.

I could "patch" aftertouch to a manageable CC, then have the SP map the desired parameter to that CC.

Uhm...

I am afraid I will have to RTFM cover to cover. I presumed the SP to be not too far from the Voyager in midi management.

All of this doesn't add too much to the "reliability" issue, though. What about it?

Once I get my midi act cleaned by the "event processor", is the SP reliable?

What should I filter out: "note on = 0"? And let "note on" pass through?

Amos
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Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Amos » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:42 pm

noteOn velocity 0 is handled as a noteOff by the Phatty.
With latest USB firmware, all of the stuck/dropped notes issues are fixed for the majority of users. From this thread we have one person reporting that Active Sensing messages are still causing issues for him, so I will have to look into that. All the korg / midi clock related issues are fixed.

As for Midi CC mapping... right now, the Phatty has a fixed CC number for each parameter. On the Minitaur, I devised an arbitrary parameter-mapping scheme... I will have to see if I can bring this over to the Phatty as well. It won't happen overnight, but it's definitely something I've wanted to do for a while.

My expectation is that you'd find the Slim entirely reliable in the ways that you are asking. Thousands of people do. :)

Sir Nose
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Sir Nose » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:24 pm

newtoslim wrote:
Sir Nose wrote:Unless you are using software or external hardware to translate the midi CC number, you will be out of luck with aftertouch as the phattys do not respond to CC1. Nor can it be internally mapped. Hopefully, the aftertouch of your controller can be mapped to a different CC. See the OS 3.1 addendum for the most up to date CC list. It is in the zip file of the OS download.
CC1 is "modulation wheel", not "aftertouch" (which is not one of the midi CCs in the narrow sense).

If I got it right, then

SP receives cc#1

SP doesn't receive aftertouch.
Sorry, if I caused any confusion to anyone.

newtoslim
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:25 pm

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by newtoslim » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:35 am

Amos wrote:noteOn velocity 0 is handled as a noteOff by the Phatty.
got it.
Amos wrote:As for Midi CC mapping... right now, the Phatty has a fixed CC number for each parameter.
ok, that's fine. I can always remap them from the kurzes (would like to avoid to insert an "event processor" or the like)

I couldn't find a midi-map in the manual (which i DIDN'T read cover to cover)

Is it me being dumb, or it's not there?

If it's there, which page is it on?

Thanks a lot

Sir Nose
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Sir Nose » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:08 pm

There is a midi chart in the manual, but you want to use the one in the OS 3.1 addendum. It has been updated. If you download the OS update zip from the Moog site the pdf file is in there.
Use the CCs as is for 7-bit. For parameters that receive 14-bit midi, add 32 to the CC parameter number for the LSB and use the CC # in the chart for the MSB.

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