Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

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Portamental
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Portamental » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:51 am

degas wrote:The SP is the buggiest analog synth ever.
It's almost useless on stage and in the studio.
Truth be told, I think you are right. But that's from the numerous report I have read about. Very worrying! So many users can't all be wrong. The SP seems even worse. It's not all that much of a concern to me, though, as my LP runs a pretty stable version 2.00. One would have a hard time convincing me to move up on firmware. Moog should keep an older and more stable Version available as a download. Currently, only the latest is.

Truth also is all that funky business kept me away from getting a couple of SP's to expand into polyphony. :cry:

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Voltor07
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Voltor07 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:21 am

Portamental wrote: Truth be told, I think you are right. But that's from the numerous report I have read about. Very worrying! So many users can't all be wrong. The SP seems even worse. It's not all that much of a concern to me, though, as my LP runs a pretty stable version 2.00. One would have a hard time convincing me to move up on firmware. Moog should keep an older and more stable Version available as a download. Currently, only the latest is.

Truth also is all that funky business kept me away from getting a couple of SP's to expand into polyphony. :cry:
The latest LP firmware is rock solid. I think the SP is faulty, seeing as how it requires a whole different version of firmware. It might use a different processor or something. All I know is, it's faulty enough for me not to buy a couple until the bugs get worked out. :(
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

Amos
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Amos » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:22 am

Hi all, so sorry about this - I just tested the SP update and indeed it is not working; I'm not sure how this got past me the first time. I am sure I tested it, although there are enough variables that I may have simply been mistaken.

In any case, I'll get a working update posted ASAP.
Thanks for bearing with me.

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thealien666
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by thealien666 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:24 pm

I'm sorry but, the way this thing is being handled seems "amateurish" to me, at best...
Not thoroughly tested, and non working updates on SP, unavailable on Mac, etc... :roll:

Maybe Moog Music should hire an external software company to do a proper, and cross-platform functionning firmware update ?

Because from a company that has a reputable name like Moog, frankly, this looks like botched up work. :x

Let's hope the upcoming Minitaur doesn't suffer from another badly implemented MIDI interface...? :roll:

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but I put myself in someone else's shoes, having spent close to $1K (including taxes) for a very buggy Slim Phatty (to the point of being unreliable in a live situation), from a company that is known for producing high priced, and usually high quality instruments. And even though this could be considered the "affordable" line of products from Moog, it's no excuse for producing "flawed" and untested models.

You would NEVER see this kind of thing from Roland, Korg, Clavia, or any other reputable company. Moreover, the MIDI standard has been around for close to 30 years now! You'd think (real) software engineers would know how it works, in every little details, by now ?

Again, I'm sorry to be so mad, but I really hate shoddy work... But I admire the work done by Rudi Linhardt on the MIDI interface and system software for the Voyager. No stuck notes, or non-working firmware updates there! :roll:

Maybe I'll get banned from this forum for this, and maybe I got off on the wrong side of the bed this morning, but I had to say it...
Last edited by thealien666 on Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Moog Minimoog D (1975)
DSI OB6
DSI Prophet REV2
Oberheim Matrix-6
Ensoniq SQ-80
Korg DW8000
Behringer DeepMind 12
Alesis Ion

vertibration
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by vertibration » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:13 pm

After Speaking with Perry, I downloaded the latest USB update. Nothing showed up on the Slim Phatty Screen, but when I checked the System Utilities menu, the last 2 digits was 34, and that signified that the Slim Phatty took in the update. I will test out when I get home from work, and let you know if it worked Amos. I personally dont think you guys did a bad job on the Slim Phatty, but as long as you can fix this problem, than its all good. Keep up the work, and Im sure you will find a solution. You guys are aware of the problem, and your dedicated to fixing it. Thats whats important.

vertibration
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by vertibration » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:59 pm

I actually just thought of one thing.....When I plug my Slim Phatty straight USB into my computer, and use the Piano roll in Ableton. I still got all of the same problems. Just sayin, if this USB update doesnt work, than I think its gotta be the OS

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Voltor07
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Voltor07 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:14 pm

thealien666 wrote:I'm sorry but, the way this thing is being handled seems "amateurish" to me, at best...
Not thoroughly tested, and non working updates on SP, unavailable on Mac, etc... :roll:

Maybe Moog Music should hire an external software company to do a proper, and cross-platform functionning firmware update ?

Because from a company that has a reputable name like Moog, frankly, this looks like botched up work. :x

Let's hope the upcoming Minitaur doesn't suffer from another badly implemented MIDI interface...? :roll:

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but I put myself in someone else's shoes, having spent close to $1K (including taxes) for a very buggy Slim Phatty (to the point of being unreliable in a live situation), from a company that is known for producing high priced, and usually high quality instruments. And even though this could be considered the "affordable" line of products from Moog, it's no excuse for producing "flawed" and untested models.

You would NEVER see this kind of thing from Roland, Korg, Clavia, or any other respectable company. Moreover, the MIDI standard has been around for close to 30 years now! You'd think (real) software engineers would know how it works, in every little details, by now ?

Again, I'm sorry to be so mad, but I really hate shoddy work... But I admire the work done by Rudi Linhardt on the MIDI interface and system software for the Voyager. No stuck notes, or non-working firmware updates there! :roll:

Maybe I'll get banned from this forum for this, and maybe I got off on the wrong side of the bed this morning, but I had to say it...
Because Memorymoogs never catch on fire, and Polymoogs are extremely reliable, and never need repair, ESPECIALLY when touring. :wink:
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

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thealien666
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by thealien666 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:47 pm

Voltor07 wrote:...Because Memorymoogs never catch on fire, and Polymoogs are extremely reliable, and never need repair, ESPECIALLY when touring. :wink:

Of course it's not the first time Moog Music has produced unreliable and poorly designed instruments (although the products you've mentioned were designed and produced by a much different Moog Music company back then). It's also worth pointing out that each time that has happened, Bob Moog wasn't there to keep things straight. The first time around it was mainly the work of Dave Luce and others. This time, even though Bob had participated in the overall design of the Little Phatty shortly before his terrible illness, it was done mainly by other engineers.

Does history necessarily have to repeat itself, in a bad way ? :(

But fortunately, this time it's not an unsolvable hardware issue, and can possibly be, eventually, corrected. Hopefully. :wink:
Moog Minimoog D (1975)
DSI OB6
DSI Prophet REV2
Oberheim Matrix-6
Ensoniq SQ-80
Korg DW8000
Behringer DeepMind 12
Alesis Ion

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Voltor07
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Voltor07 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:35 pm

thealien666 wrote: Of course it's not the first time Moog Music has produced unreliable and poorly designed instruments (although the products you've mentioned were designed and produced by a much different Moog Music company back then). It's also worth pointing out that each time that has happened, Bob Moog wasn't there to keep things straight. The first time around it was mainly the work of Dave Luce and others. This time, even though Bob had participated in the overall design of the Little Phatty shortly before his terrible illness, it was done mainly by other engineers.
Bob designed the circuits of the LP. The SP has the same sound engine, but only the Moog engineers can say for certain that the digital aspects are the same. If my hunch is correct, the SP has an entirely different digital layout, otherwise operating systems would be switchable between the LP and SP. This is not the case.
thealien666 wrote: Does history necessarily have to repeat itself, in a bad way ? :(

But fortunately, this time it's not an unsolvable hardware issue, and can possibly be, eventually, corrected. /snip/
History seems to repeat itself whenever Bob leaves. Unfortunately, he's never coming back this time. :cry: :cry:

Hopefully, it is software related. I am not so sure. :?
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

vertibration
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by vertibration » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:32 pm

I tested the current PC only USB Firmware update. I still get glitched out hanging notes. I cant use my slim phatty at all. It wont even work for more than 2 minutes. Please update not only a USB update, but an OS update as well. Its gotta be the OS.

vertibration
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by vertibration » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:18 pm

By any chance, has anyone had these issues with Logic? I noticed that I have much more problems with Ableton, Logic not really. Regardless, the problem with hanging notes, and glitch outs needs to be fixed, but Im thinking it may have something to do with Ableton Live running in OSX Lion. Very strange....

vertibration
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by vertibration » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:26 pm

Also regarding the engineering of the software. I believe we shouldnt put down or bash the problems of the Slim Phatty. Its better to encourage the development of a solution, then discouraging the engineers, and putting them down. Its not easy to impliment software inside an analog machine, and Im sure they are working very hard to give us all a fix on this. You attract bee's with honey, not vinigar. Lets all give them a big thank you for giving us great synths throughout the years, and move forward with a solution. :D :D :D :D

Sir Nose
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Sir Nose » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:42 pm

Voltor07 wrote: Bob designed the circuits of the LP. The SP has the same sound engine, but only the Moog engineers can say for certain that the digital aspects are the same. If my hunch is correct, the SP has an entirely different digital layout, otherwise operating systems would be switchable between the LP and SP. This is not the case.
The difference in firmware is need because of the difference in hardware. An octave button is not needed on the SP since there is no keyboard. The Mod section of the SP needs the ability to turn the amount knob into the mod wheel; so, modulation can be applied without a device sending midi mod wheel information.

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Voltor07
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Voltor07 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:46 pm

Sir Nose wrote:The difference in firmware is need because of the difference in hardware. An octave button is not needed on the SP since there is no keyboard. The Mod section of the SP needs the ability to turn the amount knob into the mod wheel; so, modulation can be applied without a device sending midi mod wheel information.
That makes sense. I hope it's a fixable issue.
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

hackbar
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Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by hackbar » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:54 pm

is there an ETA for the firmware fix? I just got my Slim Phatty last night, and it's basically unplayable with the stuck notes.

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