Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

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Jebus0000
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 3:18 pm
Location: Winnipeg.MB

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Jebus0000 » Thu May 12, 2011 10:46 am

Amos wrote:If so, here's the v31 installer:
http://seamslikereality.com/moog/SLIM_USB_v31.zip

You just connect USB from computer to Slim, run the Slim_USB_v31.exe, and type the number corresponding to your Slim (should be listed by name, or as "USB Audio Interface" in windows XP and older). Press Enter.
You should see "USB UPGRADED" displayed on the Phatty LCD when the update is complete.
can you post more detailed instructions on how to install this? I did what you wrote with a vista PC and nothing happened

Amos
Posts: 2438
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Amos » Thu May 12, 2011 11:24 am

make sure no other MIDI-related programs are running, as this can block the little installer from sending MIDI.
When you open the USB updater .exe, does it suggest you type a number corresponding to your MIDI output device?
If you do so, does it then say "sending x bytes" ?

Is there then a pause, after which the software displays "Sysex sent. Monitor device activity light for completion."?

If the second message appears with no pause whatsoever, or if anything is different than the above description, then probably something is keeping the data from being sent properly. Selecting the correct output device and making sure no other MIDI-related programs are running should be all you need to do in order to succeed... I think...

Jebus0000
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 3:18 pm
Location: Winnipeg.MB

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Jebus0000 » Thu May 12, 2011 12:52 pm

yes I select the Slim Phatty from the list of 2. everything happens as you describe ... I don't remember a pause but I'm usually watching the SP for something to happen.

I think I'll just wait until you release a Mac update for this.

phatmann
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 8:44 am

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by phatmann » Fri May 13, 2011 1:42 pm

Amos,

Per your request I did some experimentation. Here are the results:
  1. I hooked my XK-3c to the SP. Stuck notes.
  2. I hooked my Rockman keyboard controller to the SP. I did not get any stuck notes.
  3. I hooked my XK-3c to the SP. Stuck notes.
  4. I hooked my XK-3c to GarageBand and played a synth lead patch. No stuck notes.
  5. I hooked my XK-3c to my Casio PX-310 and used an organ patch. No stuck notes.
  6. I hooked my XK-3c to MIDI Monitor looked for any other messages besides Note On and Note Off. There were no clock, etc. messages.
So, it appears the problem only happens when using the XK-3c with the SP. Some facts:
  • The XK-3c controls all other sound sources just fine.
  • The SP has had various stuck note problems with other configurations for many other customers.
I must therefore conclude that the problem lies with the SP. Somehow it has an issue with the MIDI stream from the XK-3c. I doubt the problem is limited to the XK-3c alone, since it is fairly run-of-the-mill as a controller. As the SP customer base grows, we are bound to see this problem occur with other controllers. That is, this is a serious problem that Moog needs to fix.

I will do everything I can to help. Let me know what the next steps are.

..tony..

Amos
Posts: 2438
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Amos » Fri May 13, 2011 5:55 pm

Tony, thanks for your help and testing!

Your tests tell us some important things:

1) as you say, the XK-3c and the Slim clearly are not getting along properly.
2) it's nothing obvious that the XK-3c is doing (like failing to send noteOffs) because it controls other stuff OK.
3) The SP doesn't get stuck notes with every controller, since the Rockman one worked fine with the SP.

This also confirms that I'm not crazy for not seeing this... for whatever reason, none of the controllers I've tested (primarily other Moog synths but a couple M-audio controllers as well) cause this problem.

So what I wish I knew right now is, what is the difference between the controllers that work, and those that don't?

I am starting to wonder if it has anything to do with the voltage of the MIDI signal... in the past it was always 5V, but I think there's been a move towards 3.3V MIDI in recent years (as microprocessors are all moving to lower voltages). In theory there should be no difference between the two, but as I've heard it said, "the difference between theory and practice is that in theory there's no difference!" :lol:

This is valuable feedback from you, thanks again. I don't this minute have a next step for you to try, but especially as this issue is something I want to resolve for all customers, I will delve into it based on what we now know. I'll be talking with Moog's head engineer about this, and I'll see if he has any suggestions.

You could, I suppose, monitor the MIDI output from the XK and the Rockman controller and see if there is any difference to the eye... I suspect not though, the issue may be more subtle.

Thanks again,

Amos

phatmann
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 8:44 am

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by phatmann » Sun May 15, 2011 11:56 pm

I decided to post a message to the XK-3c forum to see if they had any ideas. Two possibilities:
  • Try a different MIDI cable.
  • Upgrade the OS of the XK-3c.
I will be out of town this week, but I will try the above ideas next week. In the meantime, I hope that Amos magically can reproduce and fix the issue :-)

..tony..

EMwhite
Posts: 1650
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:22 pm
Location: Middlesex

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by EMwhite » Tue May 17, 2011 3:48 pm

I'm a Tribute and had wacky note stuck issues while the Stage crowd was smooth sailing but your post intrigued me so I broke out (well, I routed) some of my controllers / keyboards to my Little Phatty to see if I could create a situation where a key would stick. Note that when I had my problems, it showed up in the midi capture and in my case I was always playing the Phatty directly. Upon 'recording' a sequence, however, I saw that indeed the Phatty was not SENDING note off, therefore, the sound engine in the Phatty wasn't receiving it.

With regard to the Tribute code, Amos squashed the bug a few beta releases ago and found it due to some low level interrupt service routines. That's what makes the Tribute special (it is, and the lower level code/architecture, is slightly different sometimes in subtle ways).

But the long story short is that after frenetic playing, I could not get the Tribute to drop any notes. Tested the following but note in all cases except for #4, I was NOT hardwired. My setup just doesn't allow me to be so there could be some electrical, or cable issues as was suggested.

In any case:

1. Tested StudioLogic SL-990XP 88 key hammer action controller (which is DIN) through a MoTU TimePiece AV back to Phatty DIN - no issues
2. Tested Novation SL25MKII USB through Mac -> MoTU TimePiece AV to Phatty DIN - no issues
3. Tested Oberheim Matrix 6 (which is DIN) through the MoTU TimePiece AV back to Phatty DIN - no issues
4. HARDWIRED - M-Audio Keystation 61es DIN direct to Phatty (using USB power adapter to give the kbd power)

Not sure if this helps you specifically but it at least satisfies a few more test cases/brands of keyboard controllers.
'76 Minimoog, Taurus 3, Oberheim FVS + Son of 2-voice; Sequential ProOne; Juno 106; Moog Model 15; Kurzweil 250; Hammond M3; and a handful of Fender Basses Flickr!

blkvlvanmnls
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:06 am

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by blkvlvanmnls » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:12 am

I am having the same problems

I have tried a microkorg and a korg microsampler but i still am getting stuck notes

I am on OS 3.1

gabestigmatic
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:38 pm

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by gabestigmatic » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:27 pm

Oh snap! No wonder I've been having stuck notes and dropped notes as well. I have version 24 of the firmware! But wait, is that the most up to date for the Little Phatty? Or is there a different version for the LP?

Amos
Posts: 2438
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Amos » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:11 pm

v30 is the latest usb i/o board firmware for the LP, I am pretty sure. It should be in the Windows version of the v3.1 LP update files.

pt.
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:50 pm

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by pt. » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:07 pm

Just got my SP to add the Moogelicious sound to my setup again. Sold my LP about a year ago because I was moving to a very small temporary space. Oh what joy this sound brings to my ears!

I've just tested this in my setup looking at the midi stream with midi monitor but can't see what would cause the notes to hang.

I'm using a iMac running Logic 9 connected to a amt8 interface. Tried a number of boards connected to it:
- Kurzweil PC3k8
- Oberheim Matrix-6
- Waldorf Blofeld
- SCI six-trak
With both the Blofeld and the Six-trak I can get the notes to hang when playing fast in combination with using the pitch wheel. Sliding your hand across the keys while wiggling the wheel will get the notes to stick everytime.

I've captured the stream playing so if you're interested tell me where to mail it to.

Patrick.

Polop
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:54 pm

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Polop » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:35 pm

Other people reading this thread: Do you have a Slim Phatty? Do you get any stuck notes when using DIN MIDI?
Hi, I have the same problem slim phatty using din midi connected to the korg kronos, no problems with prophet08 module and arturia origin module connected too, if i dont want stuck notes to the slim phatty i must to set korg kronos clock at external, and it's not possible to stay with this parameter because it's a master keyboard sequencer, very disappointed :? i cant use my slim phatty :cry:

Polop
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:54 pm

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Polop » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:02 am

hello, you can fix this problem in the next update? only the moog phatty have this problem :o

Polop
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:54 pm

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by Polop » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:58 am

Hi Amos can you answer? i do not know if you plan to fix this problem.

gibby
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:10 am

Re: Dropped and stuck notes even with new firmware

Post by gibby » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:26 am

same problem with stuck notes,after 2 minutes of playing .I came up with a solution.Have a volume pedal hooked up,the second you hear stucknote volume off,roboot SP. :(

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