Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patches?

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winchavez
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:45 pm

Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patches?

Post by winchavez » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:54 pm

Hello wonderful Moogers out there. I just purchased/received my new CP-251 Control Processor, and I've successfully been able to use it with my Phatty Stage II's left INPUT panel (inputting CP-251 LFO to CV PITCH, etc), but I have not been able to successfully use the CP-251 with the Phatty Stage II's right CV/GATE OUT panel (being able to affect/change the sound of the LP Stage II, etc), which is one of the main reasons I decided to get the CP-251! I wanted to use it with the LP Stage II's right CV/GATE OUT panel. I'm not the most knowledgeable user when it comes to modular synthesis, but I do know a little. Could you please help me with some Patching ideas to use with the LP Stage II's right CV/GATE OUT panel? I have 7 patch cables I can use. The CP-251 Users Manual was made before the LP CV/GATE OUT MOD, so it does not come with any Patch ideas/examples for the right CV/GATE OUT panel. Could you please share with me some good Patching ideas, so that I am actually able to affect/change/move the LP Stage II's sound! Believe me, I've tried. Thanks a bunch, all. Would really appreciate it.

here is a picture of when/how I tried to use the LP Stage II CV/GATE + CP-251: http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu62 ... mage-6.jpg

here is a picture of just the Phatty Stage II CV/GATE: http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu62 ... ge-1-1.jpg

theglyph
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Location: Jungle of patch cables

Re: Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patch

Post by theglyph » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:55 pm

The CV/Gate outputs can be processed by the CP-251 but this will have no affect on the LP's internal sounds directly.

However, you could process the CV/Gate outputs and then send the modified signals back into the CV inputs on the left side of the LP. For example, you could take the MOD buss output and mix it with one or both of the ENV outputs to taste and return the positive/negative mixed signal back into either the pitch or filter (or both) inputs. You could also use the Lag processor to reshape the output signals and rout them back into the inputs.

Hope this helps!

winchavez
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:45 pm

Re: Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patch

Post by winchavez » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:26 pm

very interesting. thanks. so this sounds like you HAVE TO actually use both the left side INPUT panel, AND the right side OUTPUT panel to EFFECTIVELY use the CP-251? like, so you can't just use the CV/GATE outputs with the CP-251 effectively, you have to for example use the CV/GATE outputs AND the left side panel INPUTS with the CP-251 at the same time to effectively make use of the CP-251? (if this is the case, thats kind of weird/inconvenient, too bad both the INPUTS AND OUTPUTS aren't on the right side panel. you have to be patching things around/across the entire synth).

also these potential "dangerous/incorrect" patches that I'm hearing about kind of scare me. what I mean is that I've always been a DIY kind of person. I've always learned best through practice and trial and error. for example, I like to experiment and see what happens, what works and what doesn't, and I don't want to patch something "wrong/incorrectly" using the CP-251 and "FRY" my Phatty. this kind of bums me out. I'm not a self-proclaimed synth expert/genius.

thanks for your responses, advice and opinions! really appreciate it.

theglyph
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Location: Jungle of patch cables

Re: Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patch

Post by theglyph » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:21 pm

If I understand correctly you've found a way to use the CP-251 with the LP's inputs? For example you could connect the S&H out into the Pitch and/or Filter inputs to get some funky results or patch the Noise output into the LP's audio input to add surf/wind sounds to the LP's audio signal chain. This, of course, doesn't require you to use the Right outputs with the 251.

Remember, the right CV/Gate outputs are there to be used to interface the LP's own internal functions with other gear including the Foogers, Voyager, modular gear and even another LP's CV/Gate inputs. The right outputs will have no direct affect on the LP's inter sound/functions unless you apply the patch suggest I previously gave.

Edit: As far as frying things just remember that the four way Mult can't be used as a mixer so don't plug more than one output into it. Mixing outputs is what the 251's Mixer is for.

winchavez
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:45 pm

Re: Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patch

Post by winchavez » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:35 am

right. yes. I know you can use the CP-251 with the LP left side INPUTS. I've already done that.

so, to simplify my question to the fullest; I'm trying to find out

can you (just) use the LP right side CV outputs with the CP-251, effectively?

yes or no?

thanks!
Last edited by winchavez on Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

EricK
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Re: Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patch

Post by EricK » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:43 am

Well, you can attenuate the keyboard voltage to play semitones, but I think the LP has tuning scales that you can download (that may only be the slim phatty right now).

If you had a freqbox or another analog oscillator or synth you could get the freqbox/synth to track to the phatty if you couldn't do it with midi.

Theres not much that you can do with the LP outs and the CP voltagewise, other than modulate the lfo speed or something like that, but one thing that you can do is multiply the audio signal and send it to different channels of a mixer. My video camera has a crappy mic on it and no mic input. So on one of my videos I routed the Voyager to the amp and to my mixer which routed it right back to logic for hi-fi audio on the video.
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winchavez
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Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:45 pm

Re: Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patch

Post by winchavez » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:50 am

interesting. that makes some more sense to me now. thanks.

so a more "simpler" question to narrow it down...

can you (just) use the LP right side CV outputs with the CP-251, effectively?

for example, lets say when the LP came out, the cv inputs never were there/existed, and then they added the CV/GATE OUT mod later, would you be able to THEN use the LP + CV/GATE OUT mod with the CP-251?

thanks!

jamezdd73
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Re: Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patch

Post by jamezdd73 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:30 am

Put simply, merely sending a CV signal from the Little Phatty to the CP-251 will have no affect on the sound produced.

Whatever signals come out of the LP from the CV outputs don't have any affect on the internal sounds of the LP.
You could use the CV outs to affect the CP-251, but then you would have to patch back from the CP-251 into the LP's CV inputs for any change to occur to the LP.
Little Phatty Stage II #3602, MoogerFooger CP-251 #1785
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winchavez
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Re: Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patch

Post by winchavez » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:42 pm

that makes absolute perfect sense. thanks so much.

definitely studying the manual.

excited to now explore the possibilities of the LP's IN's and OUT's and the CP-251

especially gonna try to learn about the potentially wrong/dangerous patches that can potentially "fry" my LP/CP-251! that definitely scares me. the last thing I'd want is to "fry" my LP.

too bad Moog didn't think about these things beforehand. I'm pretty sure there are ways to build things so that "wrong patching" does not harm the instrument.

thanks so much for your responses/help!

HowardJones
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Re: Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patch

Post by HowardJones » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:07 pm

winchavez wrote:too bad Moog didn't think about these things beforehand. I'm pretty sure there are ways to build things so that "wrong patching" does not harm the instrument.
Don't worry too much, I've done some pretty silly patching in my time and haven't blown anything up yet.

If you know in the first place what the signals do and have an idea of what they achieve and what you want to achieve everything will be OK.

With any device uneducated random connections are risky. All equipment that takes signals and routes and amplifies them is susceptible to frying. You can blow up your home stereo amp too if you do the wrong thing.
Two Slim Phatties 313 and 354- DSI Tetra - DotCom System - Korg Poly 800 - Yamaha DX27 & RS7000 + Matching Moog Pocket Protectors

winchavez
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Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:45 pm

Re: Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patch

Post by winchavez » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:30 am

what I would really like to know is 1 thing. If I'm using only the Little Phatty (with CV/GATE mod) and the CP-251 Control Processor, and nothing else, no other external instruments, no other brand synthesizers, is it POSSIBLE to potentially "fry" anything inside my Little Phatty or the CP-251 by patching something "incorrectly"?

no offense to Moog Music, but I called them and spoke with someone at "technical support" and asked this simple question, but this guy gave me a lot of... "um" "um" "hmm" "hmm" "i don't think" "i don't think" 'i'm pretty sure" "i'm pretty sure". honestly, I don't think this guy knew very much about what he was talking about. he sounded unsure. i was kind of let down.

I wish I could talk to Amos or knew his email address. He knows what he's talking about for sure!

i'm just trying to do things right. i'm not a synth "expert". I have a nice custom modular system (euro format) and this thing was built so that no "wrong" patch(es) would f*** it up! so I have all the freedom in the world to experiment. and If I can potentially f up my Little Phatty then I'd rather not f*** with the CP-251!

thanks again for all your responses/help!

EricK
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Re: Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patch

Post by EricK » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:14 am

A Phatty/cp suffers the same thing as the Voyager/vx351 when there are no other voltage controlled devices to benefit from the extra modulation capabilities.

In the end, the only thing that you can do is route the voltages generated by your phatty right back into the phatty. This, while it will produce some interesting results, doesn't really give you much to work with until you add some alternate CV sources/destinations.

I just now noticed you have a custom eurorack modular. You should be able to make the voltages between the two compatible with the cp251, and if you keep it in the Moog realm, you won't fry it, so long as you don't use the mult to combine audio or voltages.


Check out the MoogMusic channel for the MoogerFooger instructional clinic, or better yet, order a copy for yourself.
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winchavez
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Re: Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patch

Post by winchavez » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:41 pm

re: "I just now noticed you have a custom eurorack modular. You should be able to make the voltages between the two compatible with the cp251, and if you keep it in the Moog realm, you won't fry it, so long as you don't use the mult to combine audio or voltages."

I don't want to make the voltages between my Little Phatty and my euro format modular compatible.

what I would really like to know is 1 thing. If I'm using only the Little Phatty (with CV/GATE mod) and the CP-251 Control Processor, and nothing else, no other external instruments, no other brand synthesizers, is it POSSIBLE to potentially "fry" anything inside my Little Phatty or the CP-251 by patching something "incorrectly"?

i'm just trying to do things right. i'm not a synth "expert". I have a nice custom modular system (euro format) and this thing was built so that no "wrong" patch(es) would f*** it up! so I have all the freedom in the world to experiment. and If I can potentially f up my Little Phatty then I'd rather not f*** with the CP-251!

thanks again for all your responses/help.

EricK
Posts: 5974
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:09 pm

Re: Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patch

Post by EricK » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:10 pm

I don't know why you wouldn't want to interface the synths together, especially when the CP will do so little to the LP just by itself.

WIth that being said, your questions have already been answered on duplicate threads, so no further need to copy and paste things you have already typed.
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winchavez
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Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:45 pm

Re: Please help with some CP-251 + LP Stage II CV/GATE patch

Post by winchavez » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:59 pm

really? so the cp-251 with the little phatty can do "very little"?

interesting cause i bet Moog Music and many others would say otherwise.

thanks though.

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