For folks who have used (or want to use) Poly mode

[Amos]

Hi all, I have a quick question for you. First a little background:

So in the new Slim Phatty firmware, I implemented a "polyphonic" arpeggiator mode. Let's say you have a Little Phatty and two Slims (my testing configuration) and the Little Phatty is set to Poly 1 of 3, Slim 1 is Poly 2 of 3, Slim 2 is Poly 3 of 3.
In the new arpeggiator scheme, you can put as many notes as you want onto the arpeggiator "stack" and the individual synths will play in round-robin fashion; each unit in turn plays the next note in the pattern. So with three synths and a 5-note pattern you'd get something like this: (top line is Phatty number, bottom line is the Note number that this Phatty is playing)
1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3
1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5

If you pan the individual synths across the stereo field, or put some tweaks on the sound of each unit, you get some amazing sonic and textural variations, with notes pinging around all over the place. It's pretty awesome.

So, here's my question. If you are NOT using the Arpeggiator, but are just playing regular notes in Poly mode, the behavior is different.
Say you have three synths and you play four notes, the fourth note does not sound at all until you release one of the first three notes.
Would it be better if "regular" poly mode had a sort of round-robin thing going, also? So that if you have three synths in poly mode and you play four notes, it automatically "steals" the first note to play the fourth? This way each new note you played would definitely sound, although it could maybe do some odd things to the chord you were holding previously. In a sense it would be like "last-note priority" in terms of poly, where the current poly mode (don't play a new note if all notes are playing already) is like "first-note priority."

Let me know what you think. Is the current mode the "right way" to do it, or would this other mode be better do you think? What's been your experience using Poly mode as it is now? Any info or real-world feedback would be very useful to me. Thanks!

-Amos

[Wave416]

i know with the dsi tetra, it steals the first note when you play the 5th note. im used to it this way.

i would love to here a example of a poly phatty. im sure it sounds amazing. whenever you guys are ready to release the moog poly synth, im selling all my dsi equipment and buying that.

[electrojoe]

Hi Amos,
Excellent question!

I have a Memorymoog that has multiple poly options, and I like the way that it is implemented.
I would like to see the settings that it has.

Cyclic. Press one note repeatedly and it cycles through all the voices starting with voice 1.
Cyclic with memory. Press a note and it stays with the initial key that selected the voice, until another key needs it (you've exceeded the max number of voices).

Reset to voice one. Press a key and it selects voice 1 each time. press a second key (while holding the first) and it will select the second voice, and so on.
This will continue until you use all the voices, then it starts at voice 1 again.
Reset to voice Memory. The same as above, however the voices will stay with the keys that use them.
If you play a 3 note chord the same 3 voices are used for those 3 keys, no matter what order you play them in.

In all modes, when the voices run out, they use last key priority.

Hope this makes sense.
Thanks.
Gerry

[EMwhite]

Hi all, I have a quick question for you. First a little background:

So in the new Slim Phatty firmware, I implemented a "polyphonic" arpeggiator mode. Let's say you have a Little Phatty and two Slims (my testing configuration) and the Little Phatty is set to Poly 1 of 3, Slim 1 is Poly 2 of 3, Slim 2 is Poly 3 of 3.
In the new arpeggiator scheme, you can put as many notes as you want onto the arpeggiator "stack" and the individual synths will play in round-robin fashion; each unit in turn plays the next note in the pattern. So with three synths and a 5-note pattern you'd get something like this: (top line is Phatty number, bottom line is the Note number that this Phatty is playing)
1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3
1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5

If you pan the individual synths across the stereo field, or put some tweaks on the sound of each unit, you get some amazing sonic and textural variations, with notes pinging around all over the place. It's pretty awesome.

So, here's my question. If you are NOT using the Arpeggiator, but are just playing regular notes in Poly mode, the behavior is different.
Say you have three synths and you play four notes, the fourth note does not sound at all until you release one of the first three notes.
Would it be better if "regular" poly mode had a sort of round-robin thing going, also? So that if you have three synths in poly mode and you play four notes, it automatically "steals" the first note to play the fourth? This way each new note you played would definitely sound, although it could maybe do some odd things to the chord you were holding previously. In a sense it would be like "last-note priority" in terms of poly, where the current poly mode (don't play a new note if all notes are playing already) is like "first-note priority."

Let me know what you think. Is the current mode the "right way" to do it, or would this other mode be better do you think? What's been your experience using Poly mode as it is now? Any info or real-world feedback would be very useful to me. Thanks!

-Amos

Two answers from me (nothing simple, ever..!)

1. Want both, on the Arp question, you should be able to do either round robin as you mention or just sound a single voice for the ARP, leaving the other two to play along with (sort of like how the original Ob two-voice worked). On the Poly questions, should definitely be roundrobin and then EITHER note stealing or don't play anything until the next voice comes up.

2. If I had to choose, I wouldn't care much about having the ARP run though each of the voices, I would opt the ability to have an arp run, then 'disconnect' from the keyboard/controller and play live. And on the poly question, steal notes. I have a Matrix 6 and it has a handy spillover mode that will throw the notes out to the next channel (2 midi channels away), in this case, it goes from a 6 voice to a 12 voice but there are some peculiar behaviors depending; works pretty well most of the time unless the matrices get wild.

3 (whoops, there's a 3?!) You need need need to implement a split mode, even if it's rudimentary (ie. not stacked splits). Need to have either (keep it simple) a 1+n or a n+1 (ie. single base note with balance of voices for chords above or the opposite). If on the single side, you hit a 2nd note, you MUST steal and either refire or legato based on the standard setting.

Just some more options to make your life more difficult and potentially miserable.

But don't get me wrong, Amos, anything, any baby steps towards the ultimate is appreciated assuming it's rock solid! I think I speak for many in saying that stability is more important than features, I know you'll get there. Keep up the good work and thx for asking.

[Bääx]

My preference is the first and current poly setup - where a new note is not sounded until one is released.

My MS2000 'steals' notes when a 5th note is played and it drives me nuts. When I'm holding a 3 note chord while playing a melody or bass line with the 4th voice, any legato 4th voice playing inevitably steals one or two of my chord notes.

I recently got a Gotharman DeMoon, which is a four voice synth that will not play a 5th note until one is released, and my ears and fingers find it a much more intuitive way to play a poly-synth.

This is also a decent way of planning which Phatty plays which voice. With some simple and subtle finger timing, one could have their SP/LP's set to different patches and have some control over what plays what. With note stealing, this would be much more difficult to control.

Good luck sorting through all this, Amos, as there seems to be as many opinions as there are replies.

[Moogtard]

I have been enjoying using my SP with my Tribute. Since I am only at two voices at the moment I hadn't thought about these voice prefrences yet. The round robin type voicing for poly mode seems to be a common steup on alot of synths. I know that's how it is set up on the college's Roland Jupiter 8. The "regular" poly mode of the SP at this point is nice and I have gotten some interesting harmonys with different keyboard priority settings. However, I would like to have a round robing type voicing mode. The settings from the MemoryMoog would be awesome as well.

[dave500]

Amos let us hear them.
Please

[David Bulog]

speaking about the ARP one of the greatest things you could do is let it receive a gate in to step --this can easily be done in firmware
I dont like midi clock as much as the ability to be able to clock from a gate in--and send the arp its own rythms
Heck send Murray an email he has done this in firmware and Im sure he would give some sample code to do this sort of thing
http://www.kiwitechnics.com/JX3P.htm

Greater speed range and 6 waveforms for LFO1 and LFO2. LFO2 runs at twice the speed of LFO1 for extra range. LFO2 has a Random mode that can be clocked from Pattern Clock
VCA now uses ENV 1, 2 or Gate as Source Select
Arpeggiator (Off, Up, Down, Up & Down, Random Modes. 0, 1 or 2 octaves)
Appegiator and Sequencer will Output Midi Data
Bend Lever can be directed to Osc, Filter and VCA Level in any combination
LFO Button is now treated like mod control (mod level control & off only) and can be directed to any mod destination(s)
Chord Mode
Pattern Play Mode
Arp and Sequencer can be clocked from Int/Ext, Midi Clock or Pattern Generator Clock
Pattern Generator can be clocked from Int/Ext, Midi Clock or LFO2