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Theremini CV OUT to Analog synth?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:21 pm
by projectedmusic
Hi there everyone!
Im a rookie when it comes to using CV with my equipment, so bear with me. Just got myself the Theremini and im excited to start using my first Theremin.
I want the Theremini to trigger and play the sounds on my Little Phatty Tribute (LP). So I connected a cable from my CV-out on the Theremini, to CV-pitch on my LP. But when playing the Theremini, there is no sound from the LP. I have to trigger the sound by pressing a key on the LP, and then I can control the pitch from the Theremini. However this is not what I would like to do. I also set the Theremini to "note" in the CV settings but this didnt help.

Can someone in here explain if its possible at all to trigger the LP sounds via control voltage and if so, how should I set this up?
Best regards from Norway,
Carl Hammarlund

Re: Theremini CV OUT to Analog synth?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:44 pm
by d'ni
hi carl
by some reasons no one really understands, the theremini features only one cv output. you can feed that one by three different sources: note, pitch or volume. no gate. :cry:

to control the basics of a cv-synth, regarding you want to play it like a theremin with pitch&volume control, one needs 2cv out and a gate/trigger, to get the party started. this was done on the earlier etherwave plus theremin by moog. i'm playing my slimphatty with that, some adjustements, and it's awesome.
on the slim phatty one get's continuos gate on, drones galore, by pluging a jack into the gate socket. not sure if the L.P does that too.

so with the theremini you can control only one cv-input of your L.P. :cry:
i haven't figured out the midi functions of the theremini, but as far as i see, there is no note on/off function, (just two assignable cc# parameters, according to pitch and volume antenna cc.)
maybe a midi to cv converter could expand the functionality a bit. or a heavy theremini update. :wink:
you could of course use a sequencer to get the L.P running, and control with the theremini filter or volume or pitch or whatever else of your L.P. and that is it, more or less what one can do with it right now.

Re: Theremini CV OUT to Analog synth?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:44 pm
by projectedmusic
Hey d`ni!
Thanks for the great reply. So I tried to connect a cable to my KB-gate slot and yes, the LP triggers the sound continously and I can control the pitch with the Theremini. Altough not a perfect way of doing this. What does the "note" in the CV settings actually do?

I guess I`ll try to connect it via MIDI. Do you know if that can solve my problem and let me play my synthsounds with the Theremini?

Re: Theremini CV OUT to Analog synth?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:04 pm
by d'ni
hi carl,
have not tried midi to synt directly. as far as i read about it here, it works not directly to a hardware-synth. so i'm not sure about it. anybody? as far as i tried, it works for two cc parameters on most of my ios synths.
btw, the free yamaha app "faders" on the other hand can give you quite some control over the thereminis settings without the editor. nice x-y pad.and helps maybe to understand what one can do with midi. there are so many possibillities to make cool things with it.

cv is one of bob moog's inventions, and one of his better ones. lot's of synths of any kind work on that base so therefore a lot of info in the web about it. on the theremini, for cv-out is note, pitch or volume available.
the setting "note" gives you a 1v/oct output. scaled, pitch correction,if you like. somit matches the pitch fom the theremini. unisono. two voices, if you like. basically, from let's say c1 to c2 is 1 volt step...etc. therefore each note is 1/12 of one volt apart from the other. the effective voltage output depends on your settings of root-note and octave-range.
the setting "pitch" gives you a continous voltage, starting from about 0v for farest hand distance and about 5 or 10 volt output for the closest,hand distance. same for "volume" setting. these two sources are free scalable, also for different v/oct settings, in the advanced menu. more infos about cv, scale and offset etc. is also in the firmware addendum.pdf described. chapter three, page 10.
using both, cv and midi, on one synth might give unexpected results, mostly midi hangers. so make sure, you know where that bloody panic button is! :D
if you started with cv synths, i guess page 11 chapter 3.4 of the addendum shows the fun part of cv scaling. :lol: (in fact it can drive one nearly insane.)
i startet my cv journey with ray wilson's "music from outer space" diy synths. and i'm happy i did so. learned a lot about cv.

Re: Theremini CV OUT to Analog synth?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:10 pm
by _DemonDan_
d'ni wrote:by some reasons no one really understands, the theremini features only one cv output.

I think that a lot of people understand one of the primary reasons:

Moog Etherwave Plus (2 CV Outs, 1 Gate Out) $499

Moog Theremini (1 CV Out) $299

Re: Theremini CV OUT to Analog synth?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:36 pm
by d'ni
:roll: Did Anybody beg for a low-priced instrument? But I guess you're right, must be the money. :lol:

Re: Theremini CV OUT to Analog synth?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:54 pm
by rkram53
I think it's a combination of price, strategy and market reality(though this is just my guess). Think about it this way. If someone really wants the theremin mostly for CV synth control, Moog probably thought they could just buy the Etherwave plus. CV controlled synths are not cheap so you gotta think the extra $200 probably was not a big deal for those just interested in full CV control.

But now look at the Theremini, which was mostly intended (from the marketing) for beginners and people who had no experience with a theremin before. For $300 you basically get a theremin, a wave-table synth, tuner, speaker, digital delay, MIDI control and variable quantization and associated effects (scales). My guess is that they said, "hey what about throwing in a CV out too?" But adding two more of them probably started making it way too complicated as well as going over their cost setpoint. Three CV outs means fitting all that extra hardware and complexity in the box along with more real-time control and associated issues with the firmware. When you think about it, that $300 theremini is totally packed full of features to begin with (especially now that the app lets you easily create your own pathches/libraries - and that app costs Moog $ to create and maintain as well).

Of course us customers being what we are (we don't care about cost/complexity issues), we want everything now. But I can say, having been in charge of developing complex computer products for a long time, you just have to make cost vs. feature vs. time to market compromises.

But if the Theremini is a big hit, maybe we'll see a Theremini V2 at some point that will cost a bit more and have some more features (though I assume Moog is not at all done with firmware mods for the current instrument, as I am sure they will try and address some of our open requests that can be done in firmware). Of course that's not free either on their end (but is to us). The Theremini must continue to sell well and hopefully it is a success. I certainly see a lot more traction in the forums discussing Theremini than Etherwave. I take this as a good sign. The better the Theremini sells, the better off the entire Moog theremin community will be (actually the entire theremin community as well as Moog is still the leader here).

So lets make the best of that single CV and hope for more innovation from Moog.

Re: Theremini CV OUT to Analog synth?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:07 am
by d'ni
rich, you're adressing the,wrong,person. :lol: jeesuss, that's soo o.t. short: i think your right in some points but wrong in most others. sorry.

Re: Theremini CV OUT to Analog synth?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:07 am
by rkram53
I'm not trying to address anyone in particular or criticize anyone. I see how hard Moog is working to improve the Theremini and I am impressed with that. And Moog really wants folks to call them up if they have problems so they can help ASAP. Don't just pull your hair out if you have problems.

I'm just trying to make the point that there are likely numerous reasons besides just $ that there is not multiple CVs (and believe me, I really wish there was at least a gate too!) but there are so many positives about this new instrument I don't want lack of a CV to jade my view. Always two ways to look at anything. One line of thinking is "What. Only one CV?" Another is "All these features and they even gave me a CV out". I guess I'm a cup half full kind of guy.

The Theremini is really a new beast and like any new instrument it's going to have growing pains. I just hate to be too negative about it because the Theremini is the best hope for a new influx of creativity and interest in the theremin so I want to remain positive. Actually I came over here to the Moog forum because the ThereminWorld forum was so negative about the Theremini. I do like the way this form is much more objective and in general everyone here seems to have positive things to say about the Theremini and I'm impressed with the discussions and intelligence of the people that post here.


Re: Theremini CV OUT to Analog synth?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:01 am
by d'ni
hi rich,
thanks for the clearing words.. let's keep it vivid and healthy. maybe europeans just might tick a bit differently, when it comes to "the new". must be the culture,or something. :)
i'm a half full one too, and i know, there's a hellova lot more in the bottle, so i'll easily share that. :wink:
maxbe i simply forgot that it's stated as a beginners instrument.)
i'm tying to see the bright spot at the end of the tunnel, too. but i also like evolution and progression in things. and from this point of view, i quite have to give some points to some critics over at thereminworld. like: that it should not have been put on the market without the 1.1 fw, because of the theremin mode, then these guys would not have picked on it as much as they did. well they still would :twisted:
I hope that that slight katharsis, moog is going through on the theremini, don't hurt 2 much. most hopefully there will be a higher-teched theremin in the pipe. btw, i adressed my congrats, opinions and ideas of what could or should be differnt or improved several times directly. nill,nada. :cry: and i'm not that bloody stupid about theremins. :lol: i'm positive minded. finally it lead me into midi. :D and i start to like it. makes my theremin sound funny.

Re: Theremini CV OUT to Analog synth?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:52 pm
by projectedmusic
Interesting discussion you have there.
And now, back to the topic ;)
I want to use the MIDI possibility so on the volume-antenna I set CC97 and im able to control my other external synth (SuperNova2 from Novation). However, when trying to find the pitch cc to control via the pitch-antenna, I understand that its not possible. Can it really be that hard to use my external synth with my new pretty Theremini? Or am I missing something (hopefully).

Re: Theremini CV OUT to Analog synth?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:09 am
by shemeshg
Free WebMidi for connecting Theremini to external midi sound source


I've build on online webmidi plugin so we can now connect Theremini to software or hardware synthesiser.

I've tested that with Logic Pro ES2 plugin, and external hardware.
It is webmidi so it should work on Linux/Windows too.

Remember to set the Semi tons in pitch wheel range correctly so pitch change would be continues. (in logic they like it to be 2, so change it to 12).

Hope you like it