Ringmod octave effect

JMB · Post by **JMB** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:20 am

Hey everybody! I'm new to this forum and a proud owner of three moogerfoogers. I'm mainly a bass and guitar player as I haven't yet been able to save up cash for a nice moog synth, but maybe sometime in the future.

Anyway, I was thinking of new ways to use my pedals and reading here on this forum when I read about someone who used(or considered) using the Ring modulator as an octave pedal by using a guitar(or bass) signal for both the audio in and carrier in paths.

Un-tech savvy but curious as I am I loved the idea and bought myself a jack cable splitting in two on one end, and proceeded to plug my bass into both the audio in and carrier in and the audio out to my amp. When I did not get the desired effect I realized that the carrier in probably only takes control voltages and not straight audio input, as the oscillator was still going when I had double-plugged my bass, and I did not get anything reminescent of an octave pedal effect.

Basically what I want to know is if anyone here knows of a way I can use the ringmod or one of my other foogers to create an octave pedal effect with my bass(preferably octaves brighter).

Currently I have the Bass Murf, the Freqbox and the Ringmod. I also have the moog expression pedal and the tap footswitch for the murf.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Alien8 · Post by **Alien8** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:08 am

I love this effect!! I've been doing it for a while now and it's awesome.

Here's what you need to do:

Split the guitar / bass signal in two - ideally through a buffered splitter of some sort (like a boss line selector or pedal with stereo outs), as a Y cable reduces signal strength.

Patch one of the lines to the input of the ring mod and one to the carrier in.

Voila it's done. The effect is subtle, but there are a few things you can do to really boost it's presence. You need to feed the most harmonically simple signal to the ring mod to really get the effect to stand out. So, use the neck pick-up and roll the tone control all the way back so that you have a nice dark tone. This should bring it out a bit.

Now to really emphasize it add some gain - distortion works, but fuzz is best.

I've found the octave effect to be very prominent on guitar in the higher notes, and just barely noticeable when playing a 7 string on the lower notes... give it a shot tho.

Beware that if you're looking for a POG or HOG or Whammy style octave effect from this you won't find it.

JMB · Post by **JMB** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:26 am

Hmmm, are you sure this is all there is to it? I didn't notice anything when I did this except for a much weaker sound, and the carrier oscillator sound was still present and changing as I turned the frequency knob. Anything I could have done wrong or something? LFO is off, mix is at ten.

Bryan T · Post by **Bryan T** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:56 pm

JMB wrote:the carrier oscillator sound was still present and changing as I turned the frequency knob

It shouldn't have been. Patching to the Carrier In jack takes the internal carrier out of the circuit.

. Anything I could have done wrong or something? LFO is off, mix is at ten.

Mix at 10 would give you the octave up sound only. Mix at 5 would give you a blend of the octave up and the original signal.

Portamental · Post by **Portamental** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:03 pm

With two resistors and a TRS plug, you can make yourself octave step-up plugs, from one to four octaves (1 to 4 volts). Five octaves you can do without resistors, just connect ring to tip. Insert these in any pitch input jack. Works on my Voyager, Little Phatty, should work on the freqbox (I am waiting for mine).

latigid on · Post by **latigid on** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:31 pm

JMB wrote:Hmmm, are you sure this is all there is to it? I didn't notice anything when I did this except for a much weaker sound, and the carrier oscillator sound was still present and changing as I turned the frequency knob. Anything I could have done wrong or something? LFO is off, mix is at ten.

Just checking: you plugged into Carrier In, not Carrier Out, right? Is your bass active or passive?

ColorForm2113 · Post by **ColorForm2113** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:41 pm

He also has a freqbox, so wouldn't it be easier to sync the freqbox to his bass turn the mix to 0 send the osc out to the carrier in on the ringmod. This would give him a loud enough signal as well as contol over harmonics and timbre of the octave effect

Correct me if im wrong I don't have a freqbox but it seems like it should work.

DontBelievetheHype · Post by **DontBelievetheHype** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:02 am

Using analog octave effects with bass do not have a very audible effect until you start playing up above the 12th fret. I've also heard that the Carrier In ideally should receive a line level signal, so simply splitting your signal without boosting may not produce the optimal results; also as Alien8 mentioned, you should ideally split with a buffer to maintain your signal without phase cancellation&volume loss, and feeding the ringmod dirt will help to amplify the effect substantially. If you have a buffered effect or tuner with dry&effected outputs, you can use it bypassed for splitting as well.

For even and clean(no dirt) +oct response throughout the neck (if thats what you need) with bass and even guitar, digital is really your best/only option

ColorForm2113 wrote:He also has a freqbox, so wouldn't it be easier to sync the freqbox to his bass turn the mix to 0 send the osc out to the carrier in on the ringmod. This would give him a loud enough signal as well as contol over harmonics and timbre of the octave effect

Correct me if im wrong I don't have a freqbox but it seems like it should work.

Using the Osc Out would require a VCA or gate or something, because the oscillator is running even when not being triggered, and therefor between notes the osc would still be going at a pitch determined by the frequency knob (then when you play another note the osc out signal follows the inputs pitch, hard synced of course). The Osc Out is also a Line level signal I believe (either way its loud as hell compared to the input/output signal) and therefor would likely need to be attenuated as to not overpower the input signal and/or create a substantial volume boost.. An internal gate on the Osc Out would be a nice feature.

jeepo · Post by **jeepo** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:24 pm

DontBelievetheHype wrote: Using the Osc Out would require a VCA or gate or something, because the oscillator is running even when not being triggered, and therefor between notes the osc would still be going at a pitch determined by the frequency knob (then when you play another note the osc out signal follows the inputs pitch, hard synced of course). The Osc Out is also a Line level signal I believe (either way its loud as hell compared to the input/output signal) and therefor would likely need to be attenuated as to not overpower the input signal and/or create a substantial volume boost.. An internal gate on the Osc Out would be a nice feature.

I have not found this to be a problem, as the output volume of the ringmod is dependent on the input volume, although sometimes I do experience strange decays [by which I mean release]

also, try putting a wah, or some other kind of filter between the freqbox and the carrier input, this results in a less fuzzy sound, and an interesting wah

[edit] I fixed my expression pedal (actually a volume pedal with a stereo Y cable) and decided that the freqbox is 739% more useful, and adding a wah kills the nice sound it produces, but my LP's filter makes it sound so good, I can't believe it sometimes, but then i can't play the phatty

solution: more vcf's

[edit] I do agree that an internal osc gate on the freqbox would be a very nice feature, but in the mean time osc into phatty, with the envelope into the volume control works fairly well

JMB · Post by **JMB** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:26 am

Hey guys, sorry for taking so long to reply.

With the method I first tried I got a very weak octave up sound, but it was so low it was almost nonexistant.

Also, I realized the split cables were a bad idea as one of you wrote. I didn't know this before I bought them though, so yeah, kind of wasted some cash there.

I'll try the things you suggested Portamental, when I get enough cash. Currently very short.

Thanks for all the helpful replies though! If one thing fails there are several other things I can try as suggested by you guys! Awesome!

And latigid on, yes I plugged into carrier in. My bass is passive.

moremagic · Post by **moremagic** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:19 pm

Yeah, the problem with it sounding weak is that the internal pre on the 102 only boosts the audio in signal -- you'll have to bring up the gain on the carrier in so the levels are about matched for it to sound good

soundxplorer · Post by **soundxplorer** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:18 pm

A DI box between your bass and the CARRIER IN will fix this. It is probably designed for a line-level signal, and your passive bass guitar is a high-impedance device so it just can't deliver enough juice.

Plugging straight into the AUDIO IN with your bass is fine without a DI box, as it was designed to work this way. But I'd also try splitting to both AUDIO IN and CARRIER In from the DI box too. Might be even better.

If you don't have a DI, anything you have that will boost the signal to line level will help. Like a Line 6 Bass POD, or something similar. Or if you can run it through an amp simulator plugin on your computer, then patch the audio out from your computer into the CARRIER IN. My Mackie 802 mixer has DI switches on the first two channels for guitars and bass. Very helpful when recording. You'll get extended low frequency response through a DI.