moogerfooger delay modifications

[The Radium King]

hello, got a question for moog (or anyone else with a penchance for doing dirty things with a soldering iron):

after a quick run through the block diagram, i can see why the loop in/out misses the first delay repeat. i find this a little annoying, and was wondering if it was possible to modify the pedal to put the loop in/out before the delay section, so that the signal is modified prior to being delayed. this would fix the missed first repeat issue (or add a dpdt switch to give you the option to insert the loop at different places).

the other solution is to take the delayed output that heads to the mix and delay out from after the loop in/out instead of before. again, perhaps with a switch to give you some options.

if this were possible, i'd be willing to send it to moog and have this done along with the spillover mod.

thanks!

[EMwhite]

hello, got a question for moog (or anyone else with a penchance for doing dirty things with a soldering iron):

after a quick run through the block diagram, i can see why the loop in/out misses the first delay repeat. i find this a little annoying, and was wondering if it was possible to modify the pedal to put the loop in/out before the delay section, so that the signal is modified prior to being delayed. this would fix the missed first repeat issue (or add a dpdt switch to give you the option to insert the loop at different places).

the other solution is to take the delayed output that heads to the mix and delay out from after the loop in/out instead of before. again, perhaps with a switch to give you some options.

if this were possible, i'd be willing to send it to moog and have this done along with the spillover mod.

thanks!

I don't have an answer for you but I can tell you that the Carl Martin EchoTone delay does the very same thing and is criticized for it (pass 2nd delay onward through the effect loop). There must be a design based reason for this.

-Mike W. from NJ

[The Radium King]

yeah, from what i can see the new ehx deluxe memory boy also runs the signal through an external fx loop before sending it to the delay chip. dunno what the downside to this is; perhaps things get muddy quick, especially with a lot of feedback. from the block diagram it looks like an easy mod to the 'fooger. even easier to take the delayed signal that goes to the mix from after the loop instead of before. either way the first repeat gets effected (as opposed to the current config).

[EMwhite]

yeah, from what i can see the new ehx deluxe memory boy also runs the signal through an external fx loop before sending it to the delay chip. dunno what the downside to this is; perhaps things get muddy quick, especially with a lot of feedback. from the block diagram it looks like an easy mod to the 'fooger. even easier to take the delayed signal that goes to the mix from after the loop instead of before. either way the first repeat gets effected (as opposed to the current config).

Dunno.. but I'm picking up a Memory Lane II this weekend and am interested to see/hear if it does the same. Will let you know.

The Deluxe Memory Boy looks really nice and is < $200 but I can't buy it because it's likely mass produced in china and the bigger problem for me is that the guy that owns EHX bugs me! The day I saw him jumping around like an orangutan on YouTube was it... which is a shame because I was interested in the MicroPOG. Trying to get over this hangup but...

Another good one to look fwd to is the Malekko 919 if it ever gets released.

-Mike W. from NJ

[tubeampguy]

yeah, from what i can see the new ehx deluxe memory boy also runs the signal through an external fx loop before sending it to the delay chip. dunno what the downside to this is; perhaps things get muddy quick, especially with a lot of feedback. from the block diagram it looks like an easy mod to the 'fooger. even easier to take the delayed signal that goes to the mix from after the loop instead of before. either way the first repeat gets effected (as opposed to the current config).

Dunno.. but I'm picking up a Memory Lane II this weekend and am interested to see/hear if it does the same. Will let you know.

The Deluxe Memory Boy looks really nice and is < $200 but I can't buy it because it's likely mass produced in china and the bigger problem for me is that the guy that owns EHX bugs me! The day I saw him jumping around like an orangutan on YouTube was it... which is a shame because I was interested in the MicroPOG. Trying to get over this hangup but...

Another good one to look fwd to is the Malekko 919 if it ever gets released.

-Mike W. from NJ

Hey Mike, His name is Mike Matthews. He is eccentric at best. But a creative and driven man. I have bought Vacuum Tubes from him for years via the phone, But I can't ever get him in a real conversation in person at trade shows, etc. Save your money for a little more time and buy the MF-104z it is manufactured in America. Just a little I wanted to add to your statement.

[EMwhite]

Hey Mike, His name is Mike Matthews. He is eccentric at best. But a creative and driven man. I have bought Vacuum Tubes from him for years via the phone, But I can't ever get him in a real conversation in person at trade shows, etc. Save your money for a little more time and buy the MF-104z it is manufactured in America. Just a little I wanted to add to your statement.

The 104z is great but a tad too dark for me (great for synth but not for bass and my muted style) and on the long switch setting the sound quality gets too murky for my tastes (a byproduct of stretching good ole' fashioned bucket brigades).

I bought a (dare I say) T-Rex replica for my long delay needs. It's extremely well done and gives me upwards of 1.5 sec for times when I want to double back on myself during non-looped loops (if that makes any sense). But for my Analog needs, I've head really good things about the Memory Lane and I really like the built in modulation and tilt EQ. Sure I could do some of that with a number of other Moog pedals but I want to stay as close to being a minimalist on my bass.

As for the crazy cat from EHX, have a look at these two gems:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeT5VuNu ... r_embedded (gracious recipient)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1K_j1IW-iU (poor Owen!). I guess you can't blame Mr. Matthews for being unenthused.

Different folks for different folks...

-Mike W. from NJ

[ColorForm2113]

hello, got a question for moog (or anyone else with a penchance for doing dirty things with a soldering iron):

after a quick run through the block diagram, i can see why the loop in/out misses the first delay repeat. i find this a little annoying, and was wondering if it was possible to modify the pedal to put the loop in/out before the delay section, so that the signal is modified prior to being delayed. this would fix the missed first repeat issue (or add a dpdt switch to give you the option to insert the loop at different places).

the other solution is to take the delayed output that heads to the mix and delay out from after the loop in/out instead of before. again, perhaps with a switch to give you some options.

if this were possible, i'd be willing to send it to moog and have this done along with the spillover mod.

thanks!

do you mean it misses the first repeat as in the original note sounds then the repeat then the repeats with the effect?
that would be kinda annoying. the delay i had made by a friend of mine has an fx loop, and it does effect all repeats, or just the original note if you have it switched over, but it does get a little muddy which is to be expected. most effects sound good but distortion and fuzz definately changes tone.

[The Radium King]

that's exactly what happens - original note, repeat note, then repeat notes processed by whatever is in the fx loop. this happens because the repeats sent to the output are taken from before the fx loop in the signal feedback chain. you could fix this by taking output from after the fx loop, or putting the loop before the bucket brigate chip and pre-processing the signal. things would probably get muddy sooner, but it would be nice to have the option. solvable with a dpdt switch - moog should make this a mod option like the spillover mod ...

ps, regarding ehx, most of their new pedals have expression pedal inputs that work to the moog cv standard. you HAVE to try the ehx hog with a cp251 and some moogerfoogers. it's digital but loads of fun with a guitar.

pps, moog should make a cp252 with an envelop follower and a vca (as well as the standard 251-style patch bays, etc.); easily doable and infinitely useful.

[EMwhite]

I picked up a Diamond Memory Lane II a month or so ago and wanted to share my experience w/effects within the loop.

First of all, the Diamond is a top quality, North American made 'boutique' pedal. Built in Modulation, tap tempo, dual time, expression pedal for feedback level or delay time, etc. etc. I had mine mod'ed by Diamond with a 'remote' tap. As a tweaker, I can't stand having pedals on the ground so they added another 1/4" jack for me. I love the thing...

BUT!... same issue. For those into the inner workings of these devices, Diamond uses 2 NOS Panasonic MN3005's for a very warm but EQ variable tone. The ML2 feeds back just the right amount (the ML1 was criticized for going into Spaceship mode too easily).

Getting to the point now, I hooked up my T-Rex Replica (digital delay w/~1,500 ms) just to see if I could get 550ms of Analog delay to feed back every 1.5 seconds (or something like that). Works week enough but the very first repeat is sent without the external signal processing meaning that it repeats immediately so I'm afraid that what I thought would be the mother of all delays, suffers just as the others do.

My sense is that a digital delay might stand a better chance at handling this use case properly but as I said above, the Carl Martin is digital (though vintage looking and sounding) and also does this.

Back to the drawing board I guess...

[Sir Nose]

There must be a reason, so I am wondering:

Why not split the signal apply the effect that you would have in the effect loop send it through the delay at 100% wet and mix it back to the orginal signal?