MF 103 - My Next Fooger

Lux_Seeker · Post by **Lux_Seeker** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:01 pm

As some of you may know, I am a fooger lover and for that matter, a Moog lover. I have a pretty full rack of foogers right now. The only foogers I don's have are any of the MURFs and the MF 103. I also have a Voyager (love my Voyager - monophonic analogue goodness).

Lately, I have been listening to a lot of Tangerine Dream. I listen to music for two reasons. Because I like it and because I want to learn techniques from it. Right now I am listening to Tangerine Dream's Zeit. Zeit uses a lot of phasing to get drone sounds.

Now there are lots of good phasers out there but like almost all of the stomp boxes, they don't have CVs and CVs are why I buy foogers. Sure, foogers sound good but its not worth the extra $s for that. I get fooger because I connect them to one another and delightful suprises come out all the time. I often get a "wow - that's not what I expected" reaction and that's what I like about analogue in general. Digital is nice, but petty much, I get what I expect from digital and thats not mad, just different.

So my question is this. Does anyone here have a MF-103 and if so, what do you use it for. I want to hear about more esoteric uses not that someone gets a great guitar sound from it. I want to know about interesting connection you have made with it and other foogers and the CP-251 (which I have and the Voyager expander - fun fun fun by the way).

Uses with the Voyager would also be of interest to me. Comments would be much appreciated.

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:40 pm

I lack the 101, 103 and 105.

Im considering getting a 103 if I can afford it BUT I doscovered this harvestman polivox filter module in eurorack form that is making me rethink my whole setup.

Freakin euroracks.

Eric

THinking about that formant filter suggestion....

analoghaze · Post by **analoghaze** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:22 am

The 103 is great. It really shines with other CV gear.

A S+H to control the rate is always fun. Then you can use the LFO out of the 103 to control the filter on your Voyager.

The 103 sounds great in the Mixer Out/Filter in loop of the Voyager as well.

GregAE · Post by **GregAE** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:21 am

+1 on Analoghaze's comments.

"Estoteric uses"? There are several interesting MF-103 Phaser applications/tips/ideas posted on KnobTweak. I wouldn't exactly call them estoteric, but they are well worth viewing to jump start your own creativity with the '103.

That said, a phaser is not a phaser is not a phaser... which is why you ultimately might want to own more than one kind to use with the Voyager. For a big 'swooshy' effect that really colors your sound, it's hard to beat the EH Small Stone. It's a great effect on strings and pads (just ask Jean Michel Jarre), and will alter any Voyager sound in a major way.

Another great little phaser is the MXR Phase 90. This one tends to give a warm swirly effect while maintaining the high frequencies. It doesn't color the sound in the way the Small Stone does, so is best used for those times when you want a little Phaser spice instead of a big whopping dose. Using a Phase 90 on a Rhodes EP is classic example here.

Of course, neither the Small Stone or Phase 90 offer any kind of CV control or output, so they have to be treated like the stomp box effects they are.

- Greg

Lux_Seeker · Post by **Lux_Seeker** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:49 pm

Regarding the MXR and Small Stone. I do know about them. I have an MXR for my guitar and I used to have a Small Stone. If I just wanted a whoosy phasing sound I would probably go with this:

http://www.ehx.com/products/flanger-hoax

EH makes some great boxes and I did think of getting this one but again, the reason that I have foogers is the control votages. If all I wanted was a stomp box then sure, there are lots of great options.

The sample and hold idea is also a good one but I like smoother trasitions. What I like about phasing is that it causes a slow evolution of sound and in many ways, it can bring out the character of a complex sound that may otherwise have remained static and less interesting.

I will take a look on Knobtweak however and see whats there.

Lux_Seeker · Post by **Lux_Seeker** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:38 pm

No joy on Knobtweak. I got 9 hits on MF-103 and note had much of substance to say about the 103.

In regard to the Polivoks, interesting filter although dirty but I don't see how it can subsitute for a phase shifter.

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:56 pm

Well I was just saying that my next purchase was weighed between those two units.

I think there are some Bode clones to be had out there. I personally love just about anything that EHX makes.

You might can find one of those old vintage rackmount processors like a peavey that has some phasing with doubling controls and such. My buddy had one but he traded it when something went out in it that was ultimately fixable.

E

Lux_Seeker · Post by **Lux_Seeker** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:02 pm

Well, I did a bit more digging and found some answers to my own question here. First, let me say that I did decide to order an MF-103.

I found it interesting that when I tried my best to find anything on the internet which spoke about the use of a phase shifter, I found almost nothing. There were some guitar hero type videos of guitar players who seem to have been sleeping all though the phase of rock music when the phase shifter was a new toy and everyone had their Small Stone or some other phase shifter. Phase shifting became a kind of cliche in music.

So you might ask me why I bought one. It can be summed up in two letters, CV. Any individual fooger by itself is nothing more than a stomp box so while the MF-103 may be a good phase shifter - I would cation that its a costly one and frankly, something like a Electro Harmonic "Flanger Hoax" is a far more powerful way a filtering and modulating a signal. But when you have more than one fooger, the more the better, and the CP-251, then you have an entire system of modular effects that you can connect to one another in a myriad of ways which by the way, seems to me to be the reason for fooger right?

Now for the fire. OK, the MF-103, has two types of phasing 6 and 12 peak. But that's only part of it. Now you have to dig a bit deeper. Stay with me. In the back of any foogers are a bunch of plugs. One of them on the MF-103 can control the phase of one of two sets of peaks. So why is that useful? A myriad of ways. One thing you can do is send an LFO to it and you basically get two independent phase shfifters. OK, but what if you plug an envelope in into the sweep. Then you get an envelope type sweep of a comb filter. Now if you have a CP-251 then you can use the mixer and mix an envelope with an LFO and get a complex moving comb filter.

Here is another interesting fact. There is an auxillary out. OK, you know those two sets of peaks - now get ready for this - they can be sent to two separate outs. You may say so what but think two speakers. Use slightly different LFOs and you get rotary speaker type effects. What if you run one though another fooger say a delay? A reall short delay will cause all sorts of interesting phasing interactions.

OK, I could go on but suffice it to say that there are many more reasons to get a MF 103 than that it sounds like a small stone. We can leave the small stone to the guitar hero.

OH, and for those who have a Voyager, the LFO out can be sent to the Voyager to control, well, you name it and it will be in sync with the phaser, nice!

Or boy a small stone, it's cheaper and for the CV challenged, a better buy. But for those who are modular oriented, the sky is the limit. Can't wait for mine to arrive.

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:08 pm

Well its probably too late at this point but:

http://www.modcan.com/bseries/phase.html

http://www.cluboftheknobs.com/products_mod.html

250 euro plus shipping

Eric

DontBelievetheHype · Post by **DontBelievetheHype** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:29 am

For standard lfo modulation I much prefer flange to phasing (think phasers are hard to find? good luck finding a CV flanger!), but the 103 sounds great as an (my most used application)envelope phaser, for Bi-phasing, can detune very well, and can really fatten things up and change the character when used as a notch with no modulation... among other things.

I see you already ordered the 103, but I'll just put it out there that the EHX Polyphase is another smaller and lower-priced option with an exp input that is scaled well for use with the the MP201 and CP251. You can find them used for under $150 and they're reminiscent of the Small Stone, with two lfo's, exp input, and start/stop and resonance controls, though its not quite as thick as the small stone (it's character is closer to the 'stone than the Moog is to the stone). I replaced my Small Stone with a Polyphase, and the Polyphase with the Moog and haven't looked back.

Lux_Seeker · Post by **Lux_Seeker** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:21 am

Thanks for the recomendation of the Polyphase and the module. Eventually I willl get a modular which is really the last phase in my studio. Right now, I am trying to save up for a Macbook Pro so I can bring all my soft synths into my hardware setup. My desktop is old and not able to handle the strain of all my soft synths. In addition to those I have a Voyager and a Korg M3 which work very nicely together along with my foogers.

On flanging, I really like the EM flanger hoax although I have also eyed the Polyphase. I do have an "Electric Mistress". For flanging and chorus I also have a whole host of digital effects in the M3 but I do prefer analogue for effects. Although, I bought the MF 103 because it does have a CV and that is what is important to me. I also like the quality of anything Moog. When I think effect, I am not thinking so much of an individual effect but how it fits in with my overall system and the 103 will round out my foogers. I will have a great system with this.

I don't plan on getting a MURF because my music might be called ambient or experimental or perhaps space music so it really does not fit in with the MURF which is more techno/hip hop/dance oriented. If you know Tangerine Dream's "Zeit" or some of Brian Eno's work (like "Music for Airports") its more like that and a phaser fits in really well with that.

I would like to see a Moogerfooger version of the EH Flanger Clone. It uses quadrature which some oscillators and other modules in the modular world used sometimes. Using sophistictated phasing beyond the usual guitar hero stomp box stuff is a great way to get complex movement in synthesizers. While I have a guitar, I prefer something more simple like an MXR for that which is one of the things David Gilmour uses. In fact, if you look at his rig its pretty basic stuff.

Synthesizers don't have the depth of a guitar so they need effects to add movement (or at least in my music I like to do this drawing much from Tangerine Dream's style). With a guitar, it's more in how you play it than anything else.

Despite my somewhat hasty purchase, I think you all for your suggestions and I hpe some ground has been covered here and perhaps the people at Moog are listeining (hint, hint for the next fooger - hopefully with MIDI as well.

John M.

Bryan B · Post by **Bryan B** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:21 am

Lux_Seeker wrote: I don't plan on getting a MURF because my music might be called ambient or experimental or perhaps space music so it really does not fit in with the MURF which is more techno/hip hop/dance oriented. If you know Tangerine Dream's "Zeit" or some of Brian Eno's work (like "Music for Airports") its more like that and a phaser fits in really well with that.

John M.

I wouldn't discount the need for a MuRF in your rig. It can do a ton of things (especially if you get the midi version).

You can play chords with the filters. They are tuned and sound great together. Even 2 filters held open for a bar sound wonderful on their own, especially if you are running a polyphonic synth through it!

You could have constantly varying envelopes and run the sound through a good sounding delay.

You can program the steps to be as far and few between as you want so it could never sound like dance music. Even the software programmer can have 8 independent filter patterns that can each run up to 64 steps, and that can be stored in the pedal for use without the computer. Obviously, you could extend the number of steps infinitely with the use of a computer sequencer.

It has stereo outputs (like the phaser, but with every other filter being sent to the left channel and the others being sent to the right channel.

You could have some attack and a long decay on the envelope so it smoothens out the "stepping" sound and makes a lucious background.

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:02 pm

Lux,
There are only a few things that I disagree with you.

First a Fooger by itself is not just a stompbox. It might be a matter of your definition, but most of them are legit synth modules in a stompbox's clothing. That particular thing is really just nit picking though and it doesn't really matter, but it seemed like you implied that 1 fooger by itself was nothing special.

Also, the Murf I think has a lot of potential and not just for dance/techno/or pop music. Id like to get one so that I could get "Moog Percussion" on my all Moog album that im working on. The Murf can act like a pseudo phaser, and I think it wuld be perfectly at home with ambient space experimental music. There are foogers that I thought that I woudl never need but in reality, we need them all and probably multiple units of some. THe main problem with the Murf and the Freqbox especially is that there really aren't any excellent demos on youtube at this point.

I think you can't really compare a synthesizer to other instruments because a good synth will have EVERY OTHER INSTRUMENT inside its circuits. I guess it depends on your definition of depth, but the voyager and especially something polyphonic can execute a guitar hands down. Indefinite sustain, complex voicings and not to mention the entire range of the human ear at its disposal. Its just a matter of opinion or perspective though, I thought it would make interesting conversation.

Eric

DontBelievetheHype · Post by **DontBelievetheHype** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:37 pm

Lux_Seeker wrote: On flanging, I really like the EM flanger hoax although I have also eyed the Polyphase. I do have an "Electric Mistress". For flanging and chorus I also have a whole host of digital effects in the M3 but I do prefer analogue for effects. Although, I bought the MF 103 because it does have a CV and that is what is important to me. I also like the quality of anything Moog. When I think effect, I am not thinking so much of an individual effect but how it fits in with my overall system and the 103 will round out my foogers. I will have a great system with this.

Just fyi, the Polyphase is strictly a phaser and does not have a delay line in its circuit, therefor no flanging.

Lux_Seeker wrote:I don't plan on getting a MURF because my music might be called ambient or experimental or perhaps space music so it really does not fit in with the MURF which is more techno/hip hop/dance oriented. If you know Tangerine Dream's "Zeit" or some of Brian Eno's work (like "Music for Airports") its more like that and a phaser fits in really well with that.

I wouldn't pigeon hole the Murf like that- it is capable of an array of tones and movements, from the standard bouncy filtering seen in most demos, to a convincing 'phaser' that can morph and modulate like a complex lfo, can be used for EQ'ing of sorts, etc etc.

Lux_Seeker wrote:I would like to see a Moogerfooger version of the EH Flanger Clone. It uses quadrature which some oscillators and other modules in the modular world used sometimes. Using sophistictated phasing beyond the usual guitar hero stomp box stuff is a great way to get complex movement in synthesizers. While I have a guitar, I prefer something more simple like an MXR for that which is one of the things David Gilmour uses. In fact, if you look at his rig its pretty basic stuff.

A Foxrox Paradox TZF or Lovetone ? Flanger should fit this bill, though they're discontinued and hard to find. Gilmours 'basic rig' is certainly much to do with the times and what was available when he wrote the majority of the material that he performs to this day... for someone so into 'experimental' stuff, you seem to have everything pretty well classified and simplified down!

Lux_Seeker wrote:Synthesizers don't have the depth of a guitar so they need effects to add movement (or at least in my music I like to do this drawing much from Tangerine Dream's style). With a guitar, it's more in how you play it than anything else.

Despite my somewhat hasty purchase, I think you all for your suggestions and I hpe some ground has been covered here and perhaps the people at Moog are listeining (hint, hint for the next fooger - hopefully with MIDI as well.

John M.

Before Moog put out a flanger, id like to see an updated Delay with short enough delay times for flanging... buuut if thats too much to ask out of a delay, then I'd love to see a Moog flanger since there have been so few CV flangers in pedal form produced, ever.. The overlap it would create with the delay's chorus etc doesn't seem to fit the Moog M.O though, so I'll hold out hopes for the super delay

ColorForm2113 · Post by **ColorForm2113** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:12 pm

Yeah I have to say the murf is probably one of the more versital foogers and a great tool for ambient/spacey music. Don't have one yet but I've seen A LOT of demos. One I think that really stands out was from one of the moogerfooger dvds, where they just ran white noise into it slowed the rate down a lot and gave the envelope a very slow attack. This created a really cool backwards breathing effect! Super trippy! If that doesn't like eno/tangerine dream then maybe we're listening to the same bands but from parallel universes LOL