Beating a dead horse ?

CTRLSHFT · Post by **CTRLSHFT** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:28 pm

Yeah, as far as retrofitting goes I'm not sure they'd be able to do it for all of em, depending on the particulars of the units. It seems like it'd be really costly to get them fitted, too. I mean with the labor costs and shipping you could go buy another fooger on ebay.

I would still sell all my pedal style ones and get new cp style ones though...in a heartbeat!

latigid on · Post by **latigid on** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:03 pm

Hi

The 105/B boards are as short as the 102 etc, but the 103's is the same size as the delay (full enclosure).

I also measured the board in the 102 and it looks like it's about 1/2" longer than the CP-251 case is tall. That might cause a few problems.

The easiest fix might be to design a panel on its side relative to the current setup. This way any board would still be panel mountable. It's already going to take some resoldering to get the jacks mounted, but to keep the same "vertical" layout for the phaser and delay will require panel mounting of the pots and switches, with leads connecting them to the PCB.

If the layout was made "horizontal" the knobs could be re-calibrated, but the switches would all be vertical. Any problems there?

One more option would be to change the case to 4U deep.

This is still all speculative at this point, and I (or somebody) should ask Moog what they think before/if we start.

Cheers
Andy

DeFrag · Post by **DeFrag** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:35 pm

HB3 · Post by **HB3** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:19 pm

That horse ain't dead...it's modded.

slabwax · Post by **slabwax** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:15 pm

Andy,

This is going to be more difficult then I thought. Maybe we want to look into somehow disconnecting the hard connection of the hard mounted jacks and extending them up to a custom panel thats mounted parallel to the main face plate. It will not be as small and cool as the units in the CP box but that is starting to look more unlikely.

The panel in back would be more like a standard patch bay just hard wired to the unit. And with silk screened lettering. it would add 2.5" to the length to the foogers. It would also make the unit aprox. 8u high. Not what I had in mind.

Dean

latigid on · Post by **latigid on** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:11 pm

Hey Dean

slabwax wrote:This is going to be more difficult then I thought.

It always is, right?

Maybe we want to look into somehow disconnecting the hard connection of the hard mounted jacks and extending them up to a custom panel thats mounted parallel to the main face plate. It will not be as small and cool as the units in the CP box but that is starting to look more unlikely.

The panel in back would be more like a standard patch bay just hard wired to the unit. And with silk screened lettering. it would add 2.5" to the length to the foogers. It would also make the unit aprox. 8u high. Not what I had in mind.

I think I know what you mean, but let me draw up a horizontal panel and see how it looks. I'm worried there won't be much clearance for the sockets for the phaser and delay, but it may work if they are kept close to the pots.

latigid on · Post by **latigid on** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:13 pm

Here's a very rough design:

c7sus · Post by **c7sus** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:36 am

You guys are dreamers, that's for sure.

See Amo's response in the spillover mod thread.

If they're not going to do something as simple as add a jack and an IC to make the spillover mod accessable via a footswitch, they aren't gonna modify foogers to fit in CP-251 style cases.

CTRLSHFT · Post by **CTRLSHFT** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:43 am

c7sus wrote:You guys are dreamers, that's for sure.

See Amo's response in the spillover mod thread.

If they're not going to do something as simple as add a jack and an IC to make the spillover mod accessable via a footswitch, they aren't gonna modify foogers to fit in CP-251 style cases.

Back when people were making designs up for VCO foogers there was plenty of negative nancy speak too. We'll see, it's not totally out there to think this might be possible. They customize voyagers, maybe they'll customize foogers when the economy picks up.

Subtronik · Post by **Subtronik** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:09 pm

For being here just a few months I'm thinking Moog pays close attention to what people want

ColorForm2113 · Post by **ColorForm2113** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:05 am

I would like to add that although I would like the cp style boxes as well as the originals, I think sometimes we ask/expect to much for a small company that already goes above and beyond with quality, customer service, and staying ahead of the game. So like I said im all for the cp stlye foogers but I would prefer their efforts focused on new developements and wow us with something bizzare that we really didn't realize we needed because it was never there (murf, moog guitar, mp201 etc)

CTRLSHFT · Post by **CTRLSHFT** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:45 am

ColorForm2113 wrote:I would like to add that although I would like the cp style boxes as well as the originals, I think sometimes we ask/expect to much for a small company that already goes above and beyond with quality, customer service, and staying ahead of the game. So like I said im all for the cp stlye foogers but I would prefer their efforts focused on new developements and wow us with something bizzare that we really didn't realize we needed because it was never there (murf, moog guitar, mp201 etc)

I agree they're about due for something new, but considering the Taurus III is coming out pretty soon, they're pretty much on track.

It really depends on how expensive it would be to mod the designs to fit cp251s. If it was easy and didn't require too much R&D, you'd only have initial production run costs to really consider. I think we could muster the financial support to make it happen.

c7sus · Post by **c7sus** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:58 pm

CTRLSHFT wrote:Back when people were making designs up for VCO foogers there was plenty of negative nancy speak too. We'll see, it's not totally out there to think this might be possible. They customize voyagers, maybe they'll customize foogers when the economy picks up.

Fish might learn to whistle, too.

If they were going to do a volume of custom work, wouldn't now be the opportune time??? If they were to charge shop rates for that work it would fill a nice niche and probably generate a good little income when hardware sales are probably down at least a bit.

What does Moog have to gain from offering Foogers in multiple formats??? IHNFI what the break even amount of sales is for any given MF design, but if demand can't reach that threshold then it's a net money-losing idea. I'd much rather see the effort and energy going into innovative new products than into alternative formats.

What Amos pointed out in his post in the other thread was that they were prepared to do simple mods on Foogers, but really didn't want to get into the bigger can of worms of having to fab parts and perform multiple tasks to achieve the mods.

Hell, IIRC he even said it was something he came up with on his own time.

Just Me · Post by **Just Me** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:35 pm

I watch all this and have come up with my own conclusion. I'm probably going to take my Foogers and make my own panels for them and mount them into my Dot Com modular. Puts them right where I need them and helps out in the patch cord mess, too. Making the faceplates pretty is going to be beyond my area of expertise, but they will be functional.

CTRLSHFT · Post by **CTRLSHFT** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:59 pm

c7sus wrote:
CTRLSHFT wrote:Back when people were making designs up for VCO foogers there was plenty of negative nancy speak too. We'll see, it's not totally out there to think this might be possible. They customize voyagers, maybe they'll customize foogers when the economy picks up.
Fish might learn to whistle, too.

If they were going to do a volume of custom work, wouldn't now be the opportune time??? If they were to charge shop rates for that work it would fill a nice niche and probably generate a good little income when hardware sales are probably down at least a bit.

What does Moog have to gain from offering Foogers in multiple formats??? IHNFI what the break even amount of sales is for any given MF design, but if demand can't reach that threshold then it's a net money-losing idea. I'd much rather see the effort and energy going into innovative new products than into alternative formats.

What Amos pointed out in his post in the other thread was that they were prepared to do simple mods on Foogers, but really didn't want to get into the bigger can of worms of having to fab parts and perform multiple tasks to achieve the mods.

Hell, IIRC he even said it was something he came up with on his own time.

Nay say all you want, I think we can get em to do it, especially if recreating the pedals involves adding new features. I'm not really talking about modding at this point.

Now, I wouldn't suggest anyone holding their breath mind you, but it's important to promote what you want as a consumer, and I think enough people have resonated throughout the forums to merit research on foogers designed in cp-251 style enclosures. There's more room for extra features if they design them that way too, which creates an added incentive to purchase those as opposed to the pedal-style ones.

They MIDI'd and hybridized the Murf/Bmurf, somewhat obsoleting the older versions. There's no reason to think it isn't possible to do this in a different enclosure format for the entire line of foogers.

If they can prove the idea is profitable, there's no reason not to try and test it with a pre-order test and see if they can financially justify the production. As for the circuit design and layout, that might take a while and it depends on what they're already working on as to whether this is even on Moog's radar right now. If they're working on a polysynth, I doubt we'll hear anything for quite a while. Otherwise, who knows?