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Synchronisation of MURF and RingMod

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:20 am
by MichaelPeterTrowbridge
Hello.

I've got to borrow the Ringmodulator of a friend and would like to try some stuff in combination with my MURF.

I'm mainly searching for ways to let them play at the same "tempo" when using the Ringmodulator as a sort of tremolo on low frequencies.

What sort of possibilities do I have to interconnect these two?

Thanks

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:13 am
by r05c03
I think it would be pretty hard to do, you just have to the find the sweet spot. It would be awesome if there was some sort of oscillator sync to CV gate similar to tap/step on the MURF or....maybe even....MIDI clock for the tremolo, but alas there is not...yet.

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:57 am
by Bryan B
You could try running the Ringmod's LFO out into the step advance (Ring input of a TRS cable), just plugging it in with a regular TS 1/4" will just give you a tap tempo.

If you have a stereo "Y" cable with TRS (Tip Ring Sleeve) output that will work as a step adaptor.

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:02 pm
by MichaelPeterTrowbridge
Bryan B wrote:You could try running the Ringmod's LFO out into the step advance (Ring input of a TRS cable), just plugging it in with a regular TS 1/4" will just give you a tap tempo.

If you have a stereo "Y" cable with TRS (Tip Ring Sleeve) output that will work as a step adaptor.


I own a Doepfer Midi/CV-interface via which I sent "Midi"-Clock from my MicroKorg to the MURF, using a stereo "Y" cable. So what you're suggesting is that I connect the "LFO Out" of the RingMod and the "Tab/Step-In" of the MURF with that?

Thank you very much for the help!

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:16 pm
by Bryan B
That is what I thought might be worth trying.

Doepfer Midi to CV, nice! I have a Doepfer MCV24, which I love.

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:18 pm
by latigid on
You could also try and use an envelope to trigger the MuRF: send the audio out of the MF102 into something that generates a gate/envelope follower (e.g. MF101, 107). As the envelope peaks at the high point of the tremolo, the voltage could be used to step-advance the MuRF. This might take a bit of playing with though, and an offset voltage e.g. from the CP-251 might help a lot.

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:28 am
by MichaelPeterTrowbridge
latigid on wrote:You could also try and use an envelope to trigger the MuRF: send the audio out of the MF102 into something that generates a gate/envelope follower (e.g. MF101, 107). As the envelope peaks at the high point of the tremolo, the voltage could be used to step-advance the MuRF. This might take a bit of playing with though, and an offset voltage e.g. from the CP-251 might help a lot.


There is a CP-251 in our band room aswell;-) So what "patch" would you suggest with that?

I'm heading to the band room in about an hour and will then try out all your suggestions. Thanks a lot!

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:22 am
by latigid on
Hi, using the 102 as a trem and then patching the audio out to an MF101 generates a decent gate. 101 audio out to 105X audio in, and 101 env. out to 105 step input (you'll need some sort of "Y" splitter, the step input is on the ring terminal).

The envelope follows the trem sound and steps through the 105's filters. Sounds good! The smooth release seemed to work better; the fast release gave more choppy patterns (might be what you're after).

The step advances when the LFO audio goes low, so you could invert the envelope with the CP-251's mixer to get the other phase. And if you do this you will need to add a +5 volt offset to put the gate into positive territory.

Have fun!

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:15 am
by ColorForm2113
Wouldn't you be able to use the carrier out of the ringmod into the step input of the murf since the ringmod will be putting out an lfo? Or is the lfo to smooth to trigger the steps?

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:05 pm
by MichaelPeterTrowbridge
Thank you all very much for your replies!

I decided to record the guitar&voice parts of a song I'm trying to finish rather than investing time in moogerfoogering, so I guess I'll do that tomorrow.

What I thought of doing is sending the LFO of the CP-251 (square wave) to the 4waymultiple and from there to the separate pedals. Will that work? I guess I'll have to print out this thread and take it to the room tomorrow in order to remember all;-)

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:02 am
by MichaelPeterTrowbridge
Trouble ahead!

I sent the LFO of the CP-251 (square wave) to the 4waymultiple and from there to the step input on the MURF and the rate input of the RM. The MURF part worked well, but the LFO of the RM seemed to suddenly do nothing anymore. Frequency altering changed the tempo of the tremolo, but changing the rate on the CP-251 didn't affect anything (accept a rather nasty "click" on top of the signal). I unplugged the CP-251 - RM connection and tried changing the rate of the LFO with the rate knob on the pedal itself --> Nothing happened.

Can someone explain this to me?

The whole thing about the RM for me is that one is able to send the audio signal through two "tremolos" (one being the LFO and the other being the low-frequency modulator). Now that I wanted to get one of the "tremolos" in sync with the MURF, I ended up without being able to do what I love with the RM.

Thanks!

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:16 pm
by SteveD
The RATE input on the MF-102 controls the RATE of the LFO and is not useful for syncing it to any tempo as it is a CV input...

Something very easy to try - use the TRIANGLE output of the CP-251 LFO patched to the CARRIER IN of the Ring Mod - Square Wave of the CP-251 LFO would be patched to the MuRF Step Input.

The triangle wave and square wave are from the same VCO core so will be exactly the same frequency. Patching a signal into the CARRIER IN disconnects the MF102's internal Carrier Oscillator (It's still available at the CARRIER OUT jack if you need it as a control signal) and the input signal is used as the Carrier....

You could also use the 4-input mixer to combine the CP-251 triangle wave and the MF-102 CARRIER OUT signal - the mixer out would get connected to the CARRIER IN. This could be used to get one MuRF synced Ring Mod tremolo and one not- synced Ring Mod tremolo - sort of...

Sounds like fun, I'll have to try it...

SD

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:17 pm
by ColorForm2113
MichaelPeterTrowbridge wrote:Trouble ahead!

I sent the LFO of the CP-251 (square wave) to the 4waymultiple and from there to the step input on the MURF and the rate input of the RM. The MURF part worked well, but the LFO of the RM seemed to suddenly do nothing anymore. Frequency altering changed the tempo of the tremolo, but changing the rate on the CP-251 didn't affect anything (accept a rather nasty "click" on top of the signal). I unplugged the CP-251 - RM connection and tried changing the rate of the LFO with the rate knob on the pedal itself --> Nothing happened.

Can someone explain this to me?

The whole thing about the RM for me is that one is able to send the audio signal through two "tremolos" (one being the LFO and the other being the low-frequency modulator). Now that I wanted to get one of the "tremolos" in sync with the MURF, I ended up without being able to do what I love with the RM.

Thanks!
some inputs don't like square waves very much I've noticed. I think it was the res on my 103 that did something similar, the res went up and down with the square wave but when it peaked a got the same loud click. It took a couple reads to figure out what happened but what steve d said should work. Your rate knob works again after you disconnected everything right?

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:44 am
by MichaelPeterTrowbridge
SteveD wrote:The RATE input on the MF-102 controls the RATE of the LFO and is not useful for syncing it to any tempo as it is a CV input...


Stupid me!

SteveD wrote:Something very easy to try - use the TRIANGLE output of the CP-251 LFO patched to the CARRIER IN of the Ring Mod - Square Wave of the CP-251 LFO would be patched to the MuRF Step Input.


This works fine! But sounds a bit less exciting than running the Murf sound through a unsynced RingMod...


SteveD wrote: You could also use the 4-input mixer to combine the CP-251 triangle wave and the MF-102 CARRIER OUT signal - the mixer out would get connected to the CARRIER IN. This could be used to get one MuRF synced Ring Mod tremolo and one not- synced Ring Mod tremolo - sort of...


Genius! You get that all whirly sort of sound (unsynced tremolo), yet it keeps that grooviness (Murf synced tremolo).

Off course what happens now is that I'm eager to try out to get the unsynced tremolo to indeed be in sync just double or quadruple as fast as the Murf ;-) Any Ideas?

I'm selling off my Roland Space Echo and will soon get a MultiPedal, so anyone willing to provide a MultiPedal solution is welcome;-)

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:00 am
by MichaelPeterTrowbridge
Then sending the mix out of the CP-251 into the filter of the LP makes it even more of a thrill!

Though when i send it (out of 4-input-mixer) to the volume in of the LP suddenly I lose all volume of the LP. Why is that?

Has anyone got any suggestions about the "click"? Will cleaning help anything? It's a bit annoying really...

Thanks!