'Fooger new direction...

Plug in here for info tips and strategies for your Moogerfooger Analog Effects. Connect more than one for plenty of fun!
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Post by soundxplorer » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:11 pm

Alien8 wrote:You'd almost have to take a page out of the Little Phatty's book, and have the knobs free spinning (correct me if I'm wrong here...)

The LP's knobs aren't free spinning. They are real potentiometers that go from 0 to 10 just like the knobs on your Foogers. The values of the knobs are scanned digitally (from what I understand) and that's how the LED ring around each knob shows the value. You can set the knobs to either "snap" or "pass-thru" mode.

If you're that worried about the value of your MuRF, then sell it right now and buy the new one. I honestly don't think their value will tank though.

Also, I think the MuRF is the only Fooger that makes sense with MIDI. I doubt they have plans to add it to the others.
What WOULD make sense though is a brand new Fooger with MIDI-> CV pitch and gate, an ADSR envelope or two and maybe a VCA as well. Put it all in CP-251 format, then you can truly make a complete modular synth out of Moogerfoogers. :D
Gear: Moog LP, Gibson LP, lots of FX

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Post by Lux_Seeker » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:19 pm

DeFrag wrote:MIDI is useful but archaic.

I know there was some work on MIDI 2 but its too bad that an advanced MIDI protocol hasn't been developed that could support old MIDI.

I agree. It seems that having a higher bandwidth, higher resolution standard that incorporates MIDI but takes it into the 21st century would be a major advancement.

Products like Lemur and Reaktor are using new standards now but the industry needs backward compatiablity. I guess that convertor boxes might work but why not just build MIDI into the new standard?

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Post by Lux_Seeker » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:00 pm

How well do digital and analogue play together? It seems to me these are some of the broader and important questions that are being asked here. As someone who is emmersed in both words, I am not sure how far its possible to go with this analogy and I would agree with the post that pointed out that Moog may not be planning on converting all the foogers to MIDI and frankly, with many of them it does not make sense.

Some of the comments here about the Moog delay are looking for things that are best left in the digital world. Some of the features mentioned here can be found in digital delay pedals. There are some great ones out there that do everthing that is being asked for and more.

To me, the magic of the 104-Z is that it is analogue. The means that its feedback is not as pristine as a digital pedal and to me, thats its magic along with the send and return loop that is not present in a lot of the high tech MIDI/digital based pedals.

Some of the people posting here might want to look into an Eventide Eclipse or another digital rack unit. I have an Eclipse myself. You can control everthing with MIDI. A bit more pricely than a fooger but powerful if you can aford it. It also has digital ins and out and can save presets to a memory card. Not only does it do delay but pitch bending, flange, chorus, and more.

Frankly, I did not buy foogers to replace my Eventide. I bought foogers because they have CV inputs and outputs and are analogue. In many ways, CV beats hands down MIDI any day. Why? Because in a sense, it has infinite bandwidth. You can combine voltages and change them in ways not possible with digital. Sometimes, the resutls are unexpected and that is part of the magic. You also don't have to worry if you are overloaded the system with MIDI controller messages.

The same with analogue. It has not CPU meter. Overload an analogue circuit like a tube amp and it sounds warm and fuzzy. Push to many digital streams through a CPU and you get nasty digital burp (which I hate, I really, really hate that sound).

Analogue is not better or worse than digital, its just a different animal. Digital TV is good right. Very clear but when you get below a certain signal strength, you don't see snow, you see nothhing. Good and bad. Not really better or worse.

So can the two worlds be blended together. Yes, to some extent but before trying to put a digital costume on analogue circuit, realize that digital circuits work pretty well sometimes on their own. If MIDI enhances an analogue circuit insteand of trying to turn it into something that acts like a digital circuit, then I think its a good thing. I think this is what the MIDI murf is, best of both worlds. A 10 from me. A reset would be nice howewer, I do agree with that.

MIDI is useful but CV still does a kind fo magic that digital can't touch. MIDI also does its own magic. Again, just two different animals that will never be the same.

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Post by Hyphen nation » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:00 am

as someone who improvises using drum machines, sequencers and guitars, I completely and fully welcome midi to the foogers...I totally love and use CV on the foogers and a sherman all the time, but this just opens up more possibilities...nothing wrong with adding a new tool to the arsenal if you ask me...

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Post by toryjames » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:16 pm

T7 wrote:Two words for the naysayers of MIDI on the new Murf: user patterns

This is spot on. User patterns. Playing the individual frequency bands with a keyboard OR programming them with a sequencer. It is a solution that is simple and intuitive. I can't wait.
...and for those who are nervous about digital technologies moving into the fooger world, you do realize the MIDI Murf is no more digital than the originals, right? There aren't 24 built-in analog sequencers inside those things.

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Post by Alien8 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:26 pm

I don't think anyone is nervous about digital control of an analog sound stream. Moog would never make a digital sound stream.

Digital makes 95% sense in the realm of parameter control. The other 5% that's missing is what analog offers - like infinite steps between settings, not 127 different possibilities for example.
Vibration emanates from all things, even nothing. Using awareness to translate vibration into "music" is something that I am whole heartedly grateful for.

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Post by k-tk » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:22 pm

I don't feel any nervous about adding midi to foogers but.....
if you read thru this forum a lot of people asked for vco mf, eg mf, spring reverb mf.... let's say more modules for our "moogerfooger modular synth".
Now it seems like moog has no interest in making new modules ( and no problem at all with that because we have synthesizers.com, club of the knobs, mos lab and many others who love to clone old and "new"moog modules ).
If moog just want to update "old mf" serie, why don't build a midi to cv interface (good for all the pedal at once)? why not a custom case?( because who really want to dismantle two wood sides to rack three foogers and then have to loose other three rack unit spaces to have room for cables and a patch bay???)
Just food for thoughts I guess...... but I just feel there were so many useful things to build berfore coming out with a "midi murf"

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Post by c7sus » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:34 pm

I can't believe grown adults are fretting over this.


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Post by HB3 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:54 pm

That's right...we should be out killing the Hun.

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Post by c7sus » Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:55 pm

Or, at least, twiddling the knobs on MIDI-deficient Foogers.

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Re: 'Fooger new direction...

Post by peterkadar » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:38 pm

Bryan T wrote:Don't forget that Moog is also developing a CV expansion for the Little Phatty. I think their direction is wonderful. They want to offer the control that musicians want. Whether it is more CV outs/ins, MIDI control, or a hybrid of the two, they are serving their customers well.

I feel for folks who have the previous versions of the technology, but it isn't like the MuRF and Bass MuRF are now obsolete. They still do what they did when you bought them.

My feeling exactly. I would love to be able to control the analog functions of my Moog rig with my digital stuff. Especially the step sequencers in my Nord G2's :) . Midi/CV box, here I come!!

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Post by Amos » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:00 pm

Guys: as far as I know (which is pretty far) :) there is no conspiracy to MIDIfy all the Moogerfoogers. However, it makes total sense to add MIDI to the MuRF. As has been mentioned, it already had a processor in it which was generating the patterns and timing of the filter envelopes. So, the MIDI MuRF was a natural.

Here's a little detail to consider... when MIDI Clock Sync is active, the Rate knob on the MuRF stops controlling the rate directly and becomes a Beat Division control, changing the number of MIDI clocks per step in realtime. Cool, eh? But get this... you know how there's a pedal/CV input for Rate also?
Well in MIDI Clock Sync mode, this CV input also controls the beat divisions. So, you have a MIDI-synced pattern sequenced analog filterbank... with voltage-controlled clock divisions! How cool is that?
Only from Moog. :cool:

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Post by Bryan B » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:31 pm

I read the new product page many times over and never realized you could control clock divisions with the Rate CV input, now I can't wait to try it out!

I am waiting anxiously for the new manual (printed with my Midi MuRF or PDF).
MemoryMoog Plus (with Kenton Midi Upgrade Kit) MF-101 Lowpass Filter, MF-102 Ring Mod, MF-103 Stage Phaser, MF104M Delay, MF-105M MIDI MuRF, MF-107 Freq Box, MF-108M ClusterFlux and CP-251 Control Processor.

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Post by Alien8 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:51 am

Nice work reading both between & THE lines Amos... :D

I do think it is a direction that MOOG should offer in controllers and pedals, only my opinion is still that it should be through the MP, but that's just another opinion. That can be a very useful avenue.

The new news alone is enough for me to obsolete my current MuRF.

You are right, only from MOOG!!
Vibration emanates from all things, even nothing. Using awareness to translate vibration into "music" is something that I am whole heartedly grateful for.

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