freq box- env out,osc out-what's it like?

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rossf
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freq box- env out,osc out-what's it like?

Post by rossf » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:01 am

what can these outputs be used for? Will the osc out control the pitch of a voyager,so you could play your voyager with a guitar or voice? if not what is some possible uses for it. And the same for the env out-could it be used for a gate signal? Let's brainstorm the possibilities!

tubeampguy
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Re: freq box- env out,osc out-what's it like?

Post by tubeampguy » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:26 pm

rossf wrote:what can these outputs be used for? Will the osc out control the pitch of a voyager,so you could play your voyager with a guitar or voice? if not what is some possible uses for it. And the same for the env out-could it be used for a gate signal? Let's brainstorm the possibilities!

Take the Osc out (Freqbox) for a signal source into the audio in of another Moogerfooger pedal, you can use the input trim of the next box to turn down the signal But beware its +/-2.5v a very strong signal because its before the VCA.

I haven't really explored the Env out very much, yet.

Being a guitar player my application of Moogerfoogers circuits is guitar and experimental related Not Keys.

CTRLSHFT
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Post by CTRLSHFT » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:44 pm

osc out is great for using the mf107 as an oscillator if you have a way to control it via cv. I use this quite a bit w/ my XS as a 3rd oscillator, it scales well for a variety of applications.

the env out is useful in much the same way as the out on the 101, think of it kind of like an LFO, you use it to modulate just about anything else. If you only have the 107 you can use it to modulate for example the wave in for PWM.
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tubeampguy
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Post by tubeampguy » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:17 pm

CTRLSHFT: The env out is useful in much the same way as the out on the 101, think of it kind of like an LFO, you use it to modulate just about anything else.

Wow,Thanks I didin't really understand the Env is used like a LFO.
Now I understand its application a little better. ENV to CV, :shock:

EricK
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Post by EricK » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:24 pm

Audio signal goes into the Envelope FOllower input and the varying volume produces a variable voltage. You can send that variable voltage to anywhere else, like to an oscillator, to a filter, to the delay time, to any cv destination that will benefit from a variable voltage.

Its handy for turning things with no cv outputs (like a theremin) into something that sort of has a cv output.

Eric
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tubeampguy
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Post by tubeampguy » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:29 pm

EricK wrote:Audio signal goes into the Envelope FOllower input and the varying volume produces a variable voltage. You can send that variable voltage to anywhere else, like to an oscillator, to a filter, to the delay time, to any cv destination that will benefit from a variable voltage.

Its handy for turning things with no cv outputs (like a theremin) into something that sort of has a cv output.

Eric
ah, Thanks Eric that another piece of the ENV pie for me. I have seen your posts about ENV use But haven't really been able to apply it to my rig. :roll:

Lux_Seeker
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Post by Lux_Seeker » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:03 pm

Is the envelope out the amplitude envelope or the frequecy envelope? If it the amplitude then I can already get this from the low pass filter fooger but if its the frequency evelope, that might be very useful.

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Post by EricK » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:50 pm

THe envelope follower is probably one of the best friends a theremin can have. Before My Theremin was upgraded I multed the audio signal, sent 1 signal to the ringmod and the delay and used a second audio signal to the envelope follower to increase the mix amount of the ring mod.

I also used the Envelope with the Theremins audio to bring up the mix amount on the Freq box, which was throwing a sample and hold courtesy of the cp251.

According to Moogarchives:
MoogArchives wrote:One further use involves generating random triggers from the Envelope Follower by utilizing white noise or pink noise as a singal input, and carefully setting the threshold level to achieve a speed of trigger selection.
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soundxplorer
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Post by soundxplorer » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:32 am

Lux_Seeker wrote:Is the envelope out the amplitude envelope or the frequecy envelope? If it the amplitude then I can already get this from the low pass filter fooger but if its the frequency evelope, that might be very useful.
They are the same thing. Think of the CV signal at the ENV OUT jack as just a copy of the "source" signal (amplitude that is tracked at the input). The things you mentioned are "destinations" of that same signal (amplifier and frequency). So essentially, the envelope follower on the FreqBox is the same as the MF-101 filter. It just has more internal destination routings.

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soundxplorer
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Post by soundxplorer » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:40 am

I use my Korg Electribe ES-1 sampler to trigger the FreqBox's envelope follower, then send that signal wherever (most often to control a filter).

A while ago I started thinking about ways to get a more traditional ADSR type envelope shape when using the follower circuit. Since it responds to volume, I took a simple oscillator tone on my Little Phatty and recorded lots of samples with different ADSR values applied only to the AMP section. So the resulting samples were "envelope shaped" volume curves.

Those samples are what I loaded into the Electribe, and now I can send an ADSR-shaped CV signal anywhere I want with the press of a button. Or even better, I can sequence them and record some really cool patterns.

Lux_Seeker
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Post by Lux_Seeker » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:34 pm

This is the real advantage of using an envelope from a CV produced by something other than the audio signal and is common called a side chain. I first became aware of this idea when I bought a compressor with a side chain. Side chains for compressors are often used in recording techniques to do something called "ducking" to duck instrument like bass by atenuating the bass track. see simple definition here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducking

Ableton Live also has demos on how to use Live to duck

Here is a good example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gbl8bY7CDM

Of course here we are not speaking of compression which cause a "pumping effect" used a lot in dance and pop music but a shaping of the envelope by a side chain envelope.

The next place I found side chains which may be more relavent to the foogers is in one of the composers of old school electronic music, Morton Subotnick. While certainly not like by many, his methods, while primitive because he did not have foogers and at that time limited synthesis techniques, used side chains to filter sounds:

http://www.buzzclick-music.com/mort_lore.html

One of the things I would love to do is send a fooger envelope into something like this:

This is fantastic:

http://www.cyndustries.com/modules_quadgate.cfm

OK, sure, its modelled after Buchla rather than Moog but I would love to see a Moogerfooger with vactrols:

Find the Perker-Elmer variety here:

http://www.cyndustries.com/modules_quadgate.cfm

And the applications (of vactrols in general) here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO5qRyzYZXk

OK, this is not a add for Buchla but vactrols. The oscillator here is not what is important but the vactrols from which the sound is shaped using a low pass gate.

Right not I am in the process of experimenting with homemade vactrols. I have experimented for the moment with a photocell (you can get entire bags of these cheap from Radio Shack).

Try this experiment. Take a 1/4" cord and remove the plug from one end or just cut the cable. Now, solder a photo cell to the two leads and plug the newly created half vactrol into the fooger control. Apply bright flashlight especially in a dark room. Try turning the flashlight on and off using the photocell to control the frequency of a fooger low pass filter. Instant vactrol action!!

Now here is my extenstion. I am waiting for a MIDI to relay control. I will attach this to my Korg M3 MIDI out and the relay end to a diode or light, diode or other light sorce. At the other end is the photocell or vactrol pluged into the fooger low pass filter frequency. Now, the M3 will sound like a Buchla. Neat trick and using Moog electronics and nothing from Buchla. Moog should like that.

Just a few ideas I thought I might toss around.

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soundxplorer
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Post by soundxplorer » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:43 pm

Lux_Seeker wrote:I have experimented for the moment with a photocell
Check out the PEEP from Devi Ever:
http://www.deviever.com/fx/peep/index.html
$35. Sure, you can build one cheaper. But for anyone else who doesn't own a soldering iron, it's pretty cheap.

Lux_Seeker
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Post by Lux_Seeker » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:02 am

You can get a solderinig iron for a lot less than that and even solder to boot.

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