104 vs 104z. what's the difference?

chris allert · Post by **chris allert** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:00 am

has anyone compared the limited edition mf104 to the mf104z? it isn't clear from the moog music site how the new 104z is different. i've heard that the 104 used a motorola bbd chip preferred by bob moog which is no longer available, and that this is why only 1000 were made. is the chip in the new 104z still being made? and how does the sound compare to the old one?

CTRLSHFT · Post by **CTRLSHFT** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:58 pm

good question! being a 104z owner myself, and never having the opportunity to try out a mf-104, i'd love to know the answer to this.

Lengai · Post by **Lengai** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:03 pm

From my understanding the z is comparable to the original Big Briar 104. The SD has a 1000 ms delay time where the others are at 800 ms.

DeFrag · Post by **DeFrag** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:07 pm

Naw, I think the SD was a limited production run of 250 units & the longest delay was 1400ms.

latigid on · Post by **latigid on** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:23 pm

Correct.

104 = 800ms, 104Z = 1000ms, 104SD = 1400 ms. The Z/SD use a Panasonic BBD chip, as far as I can remember. Something also about the newer ones being less noisey. Try a search, it was about 18 months or so ago when they were reissued.

Lengai · Post by **Lengai** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:11 pm

You think that was bad, you should see me have to figure out a lunch check at resturaunt

redeyeflight · Post by **redeyeflight** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:44 pm

A friend on mine has the original 104 and I have the 104Z and I've gotta say that there is very little difference between the two. Yes the Z can do slightly longer delays but the difference is slight. They really sound very similar and we've A/B'd them together a lot...I'm sure in a studio situation you could probably hear some sort of difference but in live playing they both sound almost identical...they both have that overdiven, dark sound that I just love about the moog delays. I wouldn't worry about having an "inferior" delay just cause yours wasn't produced in a limited 1000 units. I would only worry about it if you're trying to obtain a collectors item.

latigid on · Post by **latigid on** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:53 pm

The Panasonic chips are new old stock (NOS) so are no longer in production. However, units like the EHX Flanger Hoax have BBDs made in China. I'd say the number of "buckets" would be significantly lower, though.

OysterRock · Post by **OysterRock** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:05 pm

Here is a quote from a recent eBay auction for the original 104. Some people will say anything to hock their goods:

Quote:
"THESE UNITS ARE VERY HARD TO FIND. THIS ONE IS IN EXC CONDITION,SOUNDS GREAT-LOOKS GREAT.IF YOUR READING THIS,YOU ALLREADY KNOW WHAT YOUR LOOKING AT. THERE IS NO BETTER ANALOG DELAY,PERIOD.THIS IS AN ORIGINAL SERIES PRODUCTION, SERIAL NO.00162. NEEDLESS TO SAY, THEY ARE NOT IN PRODUCTION,AND HAVE NOT BEEN FOR SEVERAL YEARS.THE ORIGINAL MOTOROLA BUCKET BRIGADE CHIP WAS IN LIMITED SUPPLY DURING PRODUCTION, AND THEY USED ALL THERE WAS LEFT OF THEM , THERE ARE NO MORE. IF YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR ONE OF THESE UNITS TO APPEAR ON E-BAY, THIS IS YOUR CHANCE. THIS BOB MOOG PRODUCT REMAINS,UNSURPASSED. I"M SURE THE RE-ISSUE IS NICE, BUT THE PRIMARY CHOICE OF BOB MOOG WAS THE MOTOROLA CHIP, WHICH HAS IT' S OWN QUALITIES, AND SOUND. THE LIMITED RELEASE OF THE ORIGINAL 1000 UNITS, MF- 104,BECAUSE OF SO FEW EXISTING,MAKES THEM COLLECTABLE, AND THEY WILL ALWAYS HAVE THAT VALUE, AND STATUS. THE NEW RE-ISSUE WILL NEVER HAVE THAT STATUS, OR VALUE.IF YOU CHECK THE HISTORY ON WHAT THESE HAVE SOLD FOR ON E-BAY, YOU WILL SEE THEY"VE GONE FOR AS MUCH AS $1500. I'VE PRICED THE UNIT UNDER THAT AMOUNT,GOOD LUCK!"

What a load os BS. I swear, some people are so lame...

CTRLSHFT · Post by **CTRLSHFT** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:40 pm

OysterRock wrote:Here is a quote from a recent eBay auction for the original 104. Some people will say anything to hock their goods:

Quote:
"THESE UNITS ARE VERY HARD TO FIND. THIS ONE IS IN EXC CONDITION,SOUNDS GREAT-LOOKS GREAT.IF YOUR READING THIS,YOU ALLREADY KNOW WHAT YOUR LOOKING AT. THERE IS NO BETTER ANALOG DELAY,PERIOD.THIS IS AN ORIGINAL SERIES PRODUCTION, SERIAL NO.00162. NEEDLESS TO SAY, THEY ARE NOT IN PRODUCTION,AND HAVE NOT BEEN FOR SEVERAL YEARS.THE ORIGINAL MOTOROLA BUCKET BRIGADE CHIP WAS IN LIMITED SUPPLY DURING PRODUCTION, AND THEY USED ALL THERE WAS LEFT OF THEM , THERE ARE NO MORE. IF YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR ONE OF THESE UNITS TO APPEAR ON E-BAY, THIS IS YOUR CHANCE. THIS BOB MOOG PRODUCT REMAINS,UNSURPASSED. I"M SURE THE RE-ISSUE IS NICE, BUT THE PRIMARY CHOICE OF BOB MOOG WAS THE MOTOROLA CHIP, WHICH HAS IT' S OWN QUALITIES, AND SOUND. THE LIMITED RELEASE OF THE ORIGINAL 1000 UNITS, MF- 104,BECAUSE OF SO FEW EXISTING,MAKES THEM COLLECTABLE, AND THEY WILL ALWAYS HAVE THAT VALUE, AND STATUS. THE NEW RE-ISSUE WILL NEVER HAVE THAT STATUS, OR VALUE.IF YOU CHECK THE HISTORY ON WHAT THESE HAVE SOLD FOR ON E-BAY, YOU WILL SEE THEY"VE GONE FOR AS MUCH AS $1500. I'VE PRICED THE UNIT UNDER THAT AMOUNT,GOOD LUCK!"

What a load os BS. I swear, some people are so lame...

I FIGURE THAT IF I SHOUT IN MY OWN EBAY LISTING, MORE PEOPLE WILL HEAR ME!

while he may have a point in regards to the chips, i think the different is negligable..and certainly not worth anything close to ebay prices.. for that kind of $$$ you could get a roland space echo, 104z, and mebbe a EHX deluxe memory man.. reeeetardo.

OysterRock · Post by **OysterRock** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:09 pm

I call http://press.princeton.edu/titles/7929.html on this guy.

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104 vs 104z. what's the difference?

104 vs 104z. what's the difference?

Re: 104 vs 104z. what's the difference?