What type of Moogerfooger should Moog make next?

[Impossible Sound]

Thanks for the clarification, Eric.

I'd be interested in hearing the Sherman unit. I assume by the name it's based on the phase locked loop concept. This is probably the best approach you can get with analog.

[eric coleridge]

For anyone relatively new to this forum, this Pitich to Voltage/Oscillator Mooger discussion has come up quite a bit. If you read through the older posts, someone who had alot of experience with all the various incarnations of this kind of device even made a survey of all the known versions.. Roland, Korg, Gentle Electric, etc.

Apparently Moog even made a version of the Pitch to Voltage circuit for their modular synth in the 70s. So, it's entirely possible that it might come around again.

And besides their Oscillator Modules, they also made a rack-mount dual oscilator (similar to the Little Brother, but alot more complete) for use as an add on to the MiniMoog, MicroMoog, ect. These DVCOs can be found on e-bay and elsewhere.

[CTRLSHFT]

For anyone relatively new to this forum, this Pitich to Voltage/Oscillator Mooger discussion has come up quite a bit. If you read through the older posts, someone who had alot of experience with all the various incarnations of this kind of device even made a survey of all the known versions.. Roland, Korg, Gentle Electric, etc.

Apparently Moog even made a version of the Pitch to Voltage circuit for their modular synth in the 70s. So, it's entirely possible that it might come around again.

And besides their Oscillator Modules, they also made a rack-mount dual oscilator (similar to the Little Brother, but alot more complete) for use as an add on to the MiniMoog, MicroMoog, ect. These DVCOs can be found on e-bay and elsewhere.

i really hope that P->V circuit could fit into a fooger sized chassis that also housed a osc/env gen/vca, man that would be a cool piece of kit.. even with a pricier fooger unit. Hopefully they could keep it in the price range of the MuRF or so though, I think if they creep up into the MF-104 range it'll turn off alot of people to the idea of picking one up, or if they're like me, slowing down how fast I can get my hands on one (or 2 or 3 ... )

[eric coleridge]

i really hope that P->V circuit could fit into a fooger sized chassis that also housed a osc/env gen/vca, man that would be a cool piece of kit.. even with a pricier fooger unit. Hopefully they could keep it in the price range of the MuRF or so though, I think if they creep up into the MF-104 range it'll turn off alot of people to the idea of picking one up, or if they're like me, slowing down how fast I can get my hands on one (or 2 or 3 ... )

I would also prefer to see another moderately priced Mooger. However, if that means cutting back on functionality, I think I would rather hold out on, and save up for the more expensive unit.

It would be really cool to have a seperate Oscillator/tone generator for use with my other Moogers, but a simplified oscillator without waveform selection or footings wouldn't be that much better than what is already available on the LPF (sine wave generator) or Ring Mod (triangle oscillator).

You can get an oscillator module and power supply from synthesizers.com for around $300 total--and maybe that might give some indication of how much this proposed Mooger would cost. Once you add an Envelope Generator, VCA, and possible Pitch to Voltage circuit it would seem like the price would have to go up another $300 at least. So that's $600 already.

Maybe this is too much for one unit. But it doesn't seem very likely that Moog would make a plain oscillator without any other functions-- because it wouldn't really do anything on it's own-- you would need other Moogers to control it--- and it wouldn't be accessible to a guitar player (for instance).

Or, maybe it could be like a second control processor, a CP252 (this time with a VCO, ADSR, and VCA), and not really like a pedal. Which ever way though, if they made one, I'd be interested.

[Rogue]

i really hope that P->V circuit could fit into a fooger sized chassis that also housed a osc/env gen/vca, man that would be a cool piece of kit.. even with a pricier fooger unit. Hopefully they could keep it in the price range of the MuRF or so though, I think if they creep up into the MF-104 range it'll turn off alot of people to the idea of picking one up, or if they're like me, slowing down how fast I can get my hands on one (or 2 or 3 ... )

What if Moog made the unit double-wide? It would cost more mostly because of the innards... the end pieces would be the same, and only the front and bottom panels would have to be twice as long. Or would that make the 'fooger not as usable as a stompbox for stage use? It might resemble a drum machine at that point. Ohh, now there's a whole other thought which I'm sure has been discussed here before... an analog drum machine. (I know I'd want one.)

[CTRLSHFT]

i really hope that P->V circuit could fit into a fooger sized chassis that also housed a osc/env gen/vca, man that would be a cool piece of kit.. even with a pricier fooger unit. Hopefully they could keep it in the price range of the MuRF or so though, I think if they creep up into the MF-104 range it'll turn off alot of people to the idea of picking one up, or if they're like me, slowing down how fast I can get my hands on one (or 2 or 3 ... )

What if Moog made the unit double-wide? It would cost more mostly because of the innards... the end pieces would be the same, and only the front and bottom panels would have to be twice as long. Or would that make the 'fooger not as usable as a stompbox for stage use? It might resemble a drum machine at that point. Ohh, now there's a whole other thought which I'm sure has been discussed here before... an analog drum machine. (I know I'd want one.)

ya know, i considered that pretty heavily when i was coming up with my idea for the 106 mentioned earlier. while this would definitely make the room neccesary to make a fooger with all the knobs we'd need, it'd be a real drag on space, as just to make a minimoog-type synth you'd need to devote 24 rack spaces! i think the best option here is the standard fooger size, or a cp-251 type unit. either would be awesome and very useful.

[redeyeflight]

Man if moog made a good voerdrive/fuzz/distortion device It'd be over...there'd be no reason for guitar players to use anything else. Of course there are about a million and one boutique companies out there making overdrive and fuzz units (just think of all the fuzz face and TS-808 clones are out there!) moog could make something rreally unique. Ultilizing the two effects in one theme of most of the moogerfooger pedals moog could make a pedal that had overdrive on one side and clean boost on the other. Or they could make a pedal that had fuzz on one side and octave fuzz on the other. Speaking of octave.....what if moog's next pedal was some sort of pitch shifter...not the oscillator/enevlope generator that others have suggested but a sort of analog whammy pedal. ADA did it a long time ago with the Harmony Synthesizer...which is an incredibly rare and awesome pedal. I think an analog alternative to the whammy pedal would really blow people's minds...anyone with me?!

[JSRockit]

Or, maybe it could be like a second control processor, a CP252 (this time with a VCO, ADSR, and VCA), and not really like a pedal.

Perfect, I'll take one.

[latigid on]

Here’s what I would like:

A Stereo Tremolo/Pan Pedal i.e. with stereo inputs and outputs.

The only one I can think of off of the top of my head is the Boss PN-2, which is discontinued.

I’m sorry, but I can’t photoshop, so you’ll all have to use your imaginations.

Front panel layout: Similar to the MF-103. Clockwise from bottom left: Rate (1-250 Hz), Hi/Low range switch (low decreases rate x100), Amount, Offset (explained below) Tremolo/Pan switch and Wave Shape (like Voyager wave shape). Also, the usual Drive and Output Level knobs.

Rear panel layout: Left/Mono input and Left/Mono output. Right input and Right output. The usual OFFSET, AMOUNT, RATE and WAVE CV inputs. LFO in (to use an external LFO to “sweep” the trem/pan. LFO out and tap tempo/LFO trigger input (on TRS, tap on tip, trigger gate on ring).

The offset knob is used for creating asymmetric tremolo or pans. (This function is just an idea, by the way, so suggestions are welcome.) Fully counter-clockwise is “L,” fully clockwise is “R,” and in the middle is “C” (for, left, right and centre respectfully). With the knob at mid-position, the modulation is symmetric. As the knob is turned to the left, the level of the left channel signal is increased relative to the level of the right channel. Fully counter-clockwise, the right channel would be muted, and only tremolo on the left channel would be heard.

Once again, I am no EE, so fire away if I’m wrong, but this whole concept appears to be quite simple electronically. Each channel is fed to an input on two separate VCAs. An LFO/VCO (even the same circuit as the phaser LFO) or an external LFO is used for modulation. This signal is then multiplexed to give two identical waveforms. For a tremolo effect, the modulation is applied to the two VCAs. For a pan effect, one of the LFOs is inverted (a simple op-amp inversion) and again, each signal is applied to the VCAs.

Uses: Mono tremolo. The different waveshapes would produce some interesting effects.
True stereo tremolo.
Mono input panned stereo.
Stereo input panned stereo.

Commendations: The technology seems quite simple. Most of the components are already made by Moog (e.g. wide range, multiple waveform LFO from Voyager, tap circuit from MuRF). This would make the unit cheap and easy to build.

It could be a great way to have another LFO/low range VCO with multiple waveforms (saw and pulse) without buying a Voyager + VX-351. The sawtooth wave could then be inverted, offset and fed back into the “sweep” input if desired.

The ability to patch a modulation source into the “sweep” input gives rise to an envelope controlled VCA (think Boss (gee, I like Boss, don’t I ) slow gear) or even complex mixes of waveforms.

The wide range of the LFO rate would create some wicked distortion etc. and would compliment the fast modulation of the phaser and ring mod.

I haven’t heard of an asymmetric tremolo unit, except in Software
e.g. Logic.

Did I say ANALOG?

Considerations: The MF-102 already does tremolo. However, it is not stereo, doesn’t pan, and the position of the frequency knob doesn’t quite match the frequency of tremolo. And the wave is sine only.


There you go: The MF-106 Stereo Tremolo/Pan pedal. Suggestions are welcome.


On the topic: I wouldn’t mind an analog flanger also… .

[latigid on]

The offset could also phase shift one of the LFOs. I'm thinking of Logic again.

[brunning]

supposedly the schumann pll did a descent job of tracking pitch. It is impossible to get them though.


Matt

i own schumann PLL #3. the tracking is pretty sharp, though it's often hard to tell once you get the loop track and two harmonies going. even though i've had it since 2003 or so, i still don't full understand the pedal (which is a great feeling, actually).

i don't think there's any pitch-to-cv conversion going on in that box. the harmony tracks (called 'multiplier' and 'divider') are just what they imply, mathematical calculations of new waves, and the whining loop oscillator is a conversion based on input volume.

if you're ever in brooklyn, pop in to main drag music in williamsburg. if john is in, he'll walk you through it. quite an amazing little box.

[asd]

I'd vote for something new and different. Bring out something unconventional like the Murf instead of treading familiar territory with time-based effects, an overdrive, or a sequencer.

I think that Moog does really well as a halfway point between the modular and guitar pedal makers. They seem cautious about not moving too far in either direction so I think that any new product would have a good balance.


The schumann pll sounds like an interesting box...

[Alien8]

latigid on: "A Stereo Tremolo/Pan Pedal i.e. with stereo inputs and outputs. "

Check this one out, no stereo input though...

http://www.gig-fx.com/products/Chopper/chopper.htm



Personally, I'm going to vote for the filter box, since that's my thing, but like ASD said lets see what Moog can come up with, I mean they've done alright so far!!

[godzilla]

to be honest i don't think they'd be able to fit a whole guitar synth in a fooger
maybe a big double size one
also i think it's a pretty unfair poll
i mean the top one is a synth and the rest are just effects (with one seq)
it would be cool if they made it like my TG 451 idea but just replaced the 12db filter with a pitch>cv and add something that can derive a gate signal from an audio input
then you could combine it with an mf101 and you'd have Pitch>CV, volume>CV, volume>gate, ADSR, VCO, VCA and filter of course

i can imagine a moog flanger would be insane, flage effects sound so cool once you get beyond that boring old sine wave going up and down and up and down, it would be so cool to scale it to a keyboard!

yeah some crazy monster from one of Bobs sketch books would be awesome, i wonder what kind of things lurk in those top secret pages!

[CTRLSHFT]

also i think it's a pretty unfair poll
i mean the top one is a synth and the rest are just effects (with one seq)

what would you have done differently? fooger units are probably not going to expand into conventional modular systems, so really what else is there besides a tone gen type module, and analog effects pedals? the cv sequencer idea is even a little far fetched, but i included it anyway because the cp-251 unit showed us that moog is interested in the modular approach in some respects.

in any case though, please share additions you think should be on the list. wish i could edit the poll to include them, but i don't think its an option on this type of forum posting.