Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

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mattymel
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Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

Post by mattymel » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:26 pm

Hey y'all. Got this pedal the other day and am completely mesmerized.

A few minor concerns though...I'm wondering if my fellow guitarists find it not ideal how the input signal is a bit weak to keep the the pedal from turning on it's "gate"?

Basically when I let a note ring for a long period of time, my guitar is still ringing but the signal being processed by the MF102 isn't strong enough and it dies out. It's kind of a bummer...

I'm hoping that there is a quick fix? Obviously turning the drive up helps to a point. But I'd prefer not having to worry if it is too hot compared to unity gain, especially when not using the MF102 in my signal chain.

Has anyone (guitarists or bassists) experimented with using a compressor in front of the MF102? Again, not my ideal scenario, especially considering I don't have a compressor at the moment, and I'd obviously prefer not to have to get one just for this. But I could see how it might make a big improvement.

My biggest beef with this issue comes when using the MF for its amazing tremelo. If I could perfect it to sustain as long as I'd want...that would be amazing. Hoping someone can help. Thanks!

mattymel
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Re: Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

Post by mattymel » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:16 pm

30 views and no replies. You synth people are a quiet bunch. Got about 20 replies on The Gear Page...

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

Post by stiiiiiiive » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:01 pm

Hey Mattymel, welcome to the forum!

Basically, you answered your own question :) The prpose of settings "drive" and "level" is preceisely the one you want and you already know it.
The part I may have misunderstood is that one when you speak about "unity gain when not using the MF". What do you mean?...

Ah and what do you mean when you say that:
mattymel wrote:when I let a note ring for a long period of time, my guitar is still ringing but the signal being processed by the MF102 isn't strong enough and it dies out

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Kirneh Ness
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Re: Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

Post by Kirneh Ness » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:46 pm

I must admit that I have never experienced problems like that. I understand you as if the signal dies out to quick when having the 102 engaged? But honestly, I don't quite understand. You write
My biggest beef with this issue comes when using the MF for its amazing tremelo. If I could perfect it to sustain as long as I'd want...that would be amazing. Hoping someone can help.
I am not sure you should expect the unit to have any sustain features at all. It modulates your input. I think it does so very well (in particular the tremolo is great.

BTW: Search for Lord of the Ring Mod - it's a nice little piece on the pedal's properties.
Guitars, Moog Grandmother, Minitaur, Slim Phatty, Moogerfoogers 101, 102, 103, 104M, 107, 108M and CP-251. Yamaha CS-15. Roland JUNO 106. DSI Tetr4. Arturia Beatstep Pro. Korg ARP Odyssey Module Rev1, microKORG XL.

joeman
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Re: Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

Post by joeman » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:26 pm

Hi Mattymel,

I know exactly what you're talking about and I totally agree and wish the signal didn't drop out too. I haven't found any solutions but haven't looked for any either. Please keep us posted if you discover anything!

EDIT: And I agree it is a beautiful pedal. I like using two MF102, using the carrier out of one to the carrier in of the other and panning them left right. Combined with a CP251 you can get some stunning stereo effects.

Cheers,

Joe
Sub37, Minitaur, Werkstatt, Etherwave Plus, CP251x5, MF101x2, MF102x2, MF103x2, MF104M, MF105M, MF107x3, MF108Mx2, MP201, MF Boost, MF Drive

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mattymel
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Re: Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

Post by mattymel » Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:55 am

Are you all using the MF102 with guitars or with synths? Keyboards? I've had another day with it and things are definitely better. I had my drive set pretty low. But obviously this wouldn't be an issue with a synth as it is with a clean guitar.

As far as unity gain, that is when the dry signal before the effect is the same level as after the effect is engaged. Since the Drive on the Moog is always activated I was just worried about distorting my signal when the MF102 isn't on. I have a substantial number of pedals, so I try and keep it uniform throughout the chain.

Even after turning up the Drive, I still have some issues with the effect dying out prior to the sustained notes on the guitar. But I have used a compressor to add some sustain to the signal which has helped significantly. Still not ideal, but I'm pleased with the sound overall. I'd love to hear from some other guitarists to see if anyone else had issues with this.

joeman
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Re: Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

Post by joeman » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:16 am

I've used the pedal with all sorts of synths, rhodes, and guitars/basses, the drop out issue is definitely there on my two units at low volumes, prior to the threshold I'd prefer it have (which would be infinite :p ). So I definitely agree with you. For me it's just the way it has always been so I've just accepted it and used them anyway knowing that. They still encompass a beautiful dynamic range so there's lots to enjoy and explore... I love using them! :-)
Sub37, Minitaur, Werkstatt, Etherwave Plus, CP251x5, MF101x2, MF102x2, MF103x2, MF104M, MF105M, MF107x3, MF108Mx2, MP201, MF Boost, MF Drive

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latigid on
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Re: Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

Post by latigid on » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:31 am

Ring mods have a squelch circuit that closes a VCA when the input goes below a certain threshold. This is to prevent the carrier wave bleeding through. It might be that the pedal is old and needs recalibration, or it could be normal behaviour that varies with input level.

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

Post by stiiiiiiive » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:51 am

That explains a lot indeed.
I had a MF102 but never observed that. I used it few and sold it quick though because I'm not ready for ring modulation :D

mattymel
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Re: Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

Post by mattymel » Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:26 am

Hopefully it's not that mine is "old", as I just bought mine.

Another concern...do any of you worry about usin these things with guitar amps? There are some pretty drastic lows AND highs buried in this box. First time I've ever been concerned about blowing a speaker. Any experiences?

c7sus
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Re: Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

Post by c7sus » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:32 pm

Play more eighth notes and fewer whole notes.
Voyager EB #165, T3 #292, MF-101, 102, 103, 104SD, 2x104MSD, 105M, 107, 108M, MP-201, VX-351, CP-251, Frostwave Fat Controller.

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Vsyevolod
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Re: Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

Post by Vsyevolod » Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:23 pm

I never noticed that the Ring Mod has this gate thing going on. And I have three of them!

So I just ran my guitar through it and noticed what you're talking about. One of the main reasons that I never noticed it is that I run my guitars (both acoustic and electric) through a Hughes & Kettner Replex (which adds digital reverb, emulated tape delay, and boosts the signal through a non-starved valve). This gives me a hotter signal to feed the Ring Mod with and it takes much longer for the sustain to die down enough to where the Ring Mod's gate kicks in. So even though this works (and works quite well), it doesn't solve your problem unless you're willing to throw a couple of big bills at yet another large footprint stompbox. Though if you do end up going this route, it will improve the tone of your guitar about a thousand-fold. Alternately, I imagine throwing a compressor before the Ring Mod would also do the trick.

Know that your Ring Mod is most likely up to snuff spec-wise.

And thanks for bringing this topic up. I learned something more about my beloved 102's.

Stephen




.

mattymel
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Re: Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

Post by mattymel » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:11 am

After some experimenting I did end up buying a compressor to run before the MF102. The result is great. The notes sustain much longer and the Moog is reacting like I had hoped. Problem solved!

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MRNUTTY
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Re: Moog MF102 Ring Modulator newbie question/concerns

Post by MRNUTTY » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:15 pm

mattymel wrote:30 views and no replies. You synth people are a quiet bunch. Got about 20 replies on The Gear Page...
Get a compressor, crank it.
VoyagerEB, Minitaur, LittlePhattyII, 4xSlimPhatty, Sub37, MF[2x101,2x102,103,104M,105,105B,105M,2x107,108M], 3xCP251, XV351, MP201;

Tons of Behringer System 55 clone modules, working on fixes for their design misses. Good fun!

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