Talk me into keeping my MF104M

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Xander Greer
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Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by Xander Greer » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:01 pm

So yeah I got one but I am not in love with this thing......sorry, I know it's not what everyone else is saying but I can't help feel like I'm missing out on why this is such a cool pedal..........

Does anyone have an example of using the insert patch on the Delay line?

I can't find any video's and I don't have an insert cable to see.........

I thought of running a wah pedal on the insert to knock the low end off and such........

The sound just turns to mud after a few delay's there's really no charm to the infinite feedback I've been able to find. Everythings Mud....

and 800 ms is like Quarter notes at 105 BPM. Not very long indeed.......

and the LFO modulation has not once been usable in my opinion. it's just super wild not in key pitches..........

Anyone else agree?......I'm not looking start a huge debate and rain on anyone's parade but perhaps I just don't know enough

Thanks tons!

Xander Greer
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Re: Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by Xander Greer » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:07 pm

Sorry everyone didn't mean to cause a silence here but I was hoping someone would say something like

you need to looking into this ........or try this.........

Anyone?

Wanna trade for your Mother 32? You never know, Thanks for reading........

stuart_melvey
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Re: Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by stuart_melvey » Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:24 am

This pedal is not for everyone. For me, it offers a perfect amount of warmth and grit. In other words it sounds "alive". Once you get properly hooked on its sound, its very hard to move to something else. You deal with the limitations, because they are physical limits using a real bucket brigade.

For something this expensive when your not sure, i'd probably sell it and get something else you probably need more.

Xander Greer
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Re: Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by Xander Greer » Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:44 am

Thanks for the reply.

any tips for keeping the delay line from turning to such low end.

I've got an insert cable on order.

Do you run anything in the insert?

It just turns to dark to quick for my liking.....
Last edited by Xander Greer on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by stiiiiiiive » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:44 am

Well indeed it’s not for everyone. The BBD technology will always give you darker repeats than a digital, clean delay. That’s part of the magic, part of why people like it :)

Welcome to the forum, BTW!

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bichuelo
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Re: Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by bichuelo » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:49 am

You can send CC#85 to turn off the filter and get a brighter processed signal
http://audiotecna.info
T-III, Voyager, VX-351, Slim Phatty, Model D, Sub Phatty, Subsequent 37, Minitaur, all moogerfoogers and minifoogers, EW+, Theremini, Model 15, Filtatron, Animoog, Model D App, iOS 11 Mother-32, DFAM, Werkstatt, Win7, High Sierra

Alien8
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Re: Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by Alien8 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:53 am

It sounds like you should take full advantage of the MIDI abilities if you have it in your rig. You can use some parameters in a more precise way to achieve things like a subtle modulation, or key related time shifts. This unit takes time to learn and demands patience and subtle adjustment.

You are right about the insert idea to use a wah, or high pass filter of some type. You might find that the wah creates feedback with a lot of resonance, meaning the wah frequency takes over the delay signal. Try a simple high pass filter (like a Capacitor, Resistor circuit), you may find awesome results.

As I always suggest, and if you are really interested in keeping the unit - Read The Manual. Then read it again. All of it. again. (not being a jerk, there is a lot of information to take in and figure out how to apply and the manual usually has the answers in one form or another.)

Edit: Maybe you can elaborate on what signals you are sending to it's input...
Vibration emanates from all things, even nothing. Using awareness to translate vibration into "music" is something that I am whole heartedly grateful for.

TimeEchoProductions
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Re: Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by TimeEchoProductions » Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:40 pm

EQ pedal in the loop,
Or how about something more wild like a ring mod or a bit crusher?
Voyager XL, Minitaur, MF-101, MF-102, MF-103,
MF-105m, MF-107, MF-108m, MP-201
Thomas Monticello 371 with Moog preset Synthesizer

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Kirneh Ness
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Re: Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by Kirneh Ness » Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:00 pm

If you don't like the basic delay sound, get rid of it. No reason to try loving something you don't. So I will not talk you into keeping it. :) I am sure you can sell it at a very decent prices the days. And you will be able to get delay units with much longer delays for the money.

I recently got it, and so far I am loving it. My stomach warms up when I hear the echo trails. I actually like the LFO tweak of time, but it should be used sparingly. Also, when you got self-oscillation, the ramp LFO gives nice illusion of a noise getting higher frequency. Sounds cool.

I just got some insert cables, so I will see if the repeats can be processed in interesting ways. Indeed, like you, I haven't seen much on this either anywhere.

PS: I don't do midi so I can't comment on that aspect.
Guitars, Moog Grandmother, Minitaur, Slim Phatty, Moogerfoogers 101, 102, 103, 104M, 107, 108M and CP-251. Yamaha CS-15. Roland JUNO 106. DSI Tetr4. Arturia Beatstep Pro. Korg ARP Odyssey Module Rev1, microKORG XL.

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bichuelo
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Re: Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by bichuelo » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:11 pm

TimeEchoProductions wrote:EQ pedal in the loop,
Or how about something more wild like a ring mod or a bit crusher?


Ring Mod works fantastic for robotic sounds
http://audiotecna.info
T-III, Voyager, VX-351, Slim Phatty, Model D, Sub Phatty, Subsequent 37, Minitaur, all moogerfoogers and minifoogers, EW+, Theremini, Model 15, Filtatron, Animoog, Model D App, iOS 11 Mother-32, DFAM, Werkstatt, Win7, High Sierra

Xander Greer
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Re: Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by Xander Greer » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:06 am

Thanks for the replies

So I've got a sub37 and love it, the sound never gets too shrill, its so smooth and buttery. Perfect!

I started with the Sub Phatty, I use this the most in my live set-up. I got the Sub37 last year and for christmas added the Cluster Flux and CP251. Just got the Delay, and I think my expectation were just too high.

interesting about CC85 I'm about to try this, this is news to me but it does seem like a big low pass filter....Thanks

My expectation was to play a little blip and have repeat for a long time. But my first impressions of how this actually sounds was just a bit sour.

I'm really liking the analog time stretching using Ramp Mod but I've gotten better results with the Cluster Flux, which I like a lot.

c7sus
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Re: Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by c7sus » Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:15 pm

Before you ditch the 104 try using it as a send/return off your mixer instead of routing directly through it. I bring the returns back to a pair of inputs and mix to taste. I've found that using the 104 in this way the audio doesn't get taken over and swallowed whole by the delay.

The controls on the 104 are VERY interactive. The same goes for all the MoogerFoogers. These days when I am setting up an effect I find myself starting with all the controls at "0" and listening while adding/adjusting parameters, rather than setting rough approximations of the sound I am looking for and tweaking. I have found so many interesting sounds that I was previously missing out on.

As was mentioned, read the manuals, over and over. I find something or am reminded of something every time I look at the manuals. These pedals are so deep and have a huge range of function and available tones. Understanding the parameters and the CV I/O and functionality is key to getting the most out of these pedals.
Voyager EB #165, T3 #292, MF-101, 102, 103, 104SD, 2x104MSD, 105M, 107, 108M, MP-201, VX-351, CP-251, Frostwave Fat Controller.

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facon
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Re: Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by facon » Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:25 am

Analog delays aren't for everybody. Fortunately, there are tons of delays on the market and 99% of them are cheaper than an MF-104M. Perhaps try digital or a tape modeling delay? Digital if you want exact repeats. Tape of you want repeats that lose a little low end and have a subtle chorus-like warble effect on them. Analog has a tendency of being darker and grittier. It also has a certain response to dynamics that seems more natural to me.

Funny story, I had a guitar player in my studio about a month ago that asked for delay. I set up an MF-104MSD for him. He absolutely hated it. He said he has a small practice amp had the perfect delay built into it. Then asked me if I had anything nicer haha. Just goes to show that everybody is different!


Edit: Try setting it is as more of an atmospheric reverb like effect. Medium length, dark repeats, low level to sit underneath your melody. To me, that's where this pedal really shines. Atmosphere without stepping all over everything.

DeckardTrinity
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Re: Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by DeckardTrinity » Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:46 am

I'll second the comment about sidechaining vs insert - I tried the insert approach with my XL when I first got it, did not (and still do not) fully understand why it sounds so terrible set up like that. Sidechained on a separate return on my mixer ever since.

I too don't care much for the darker sound, but I do like the analog purity of running sound from my XL into it to sweeten up the sound. After 1.5 years I've finally started to find ways to bring the LFO into the mix as well - usually for subtle movements of the sound long after it's decayed. Honestly, this one effect + tweaking a new patch on the XL can result in a couple hours of entertainment for one evening. :mrgreen:

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facon
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Re: Talk me into keeping my MF104M

Post by facon » Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:01 am

c7sus wrote:Before you ditch the 104 try using it as a send/return off your mixer instead of routing directly through it. I bring the returns back to a pair of inputs and mix to taste. I've found that using the 104 in this way the audio doesn't get taken over and swallowed whole by the delay.


Hmm, I'm a bit confused. The delay has a built in parallel blend/mix already. I have used the delay on an aux while mixing because I was routing a few things through it at once. I'm not sure I understand the benefit while using a single source though.
Last edited by facon on Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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