104z + 104m to achieve stereo delay?

Plug in here for info tips and strategies for your Moogerfooger Analog Effects. Connect more than one for plenty of fun!
Post Reply
scragg
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:55 pm

104z + 104m to achieve stereo delay?

Post by scragg » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:09 pm

Hi There,

Just placed an order on a 104m Delay :D and wanted to ask a quick question.
Can the 104M be fed into the loop of 104M for 2 independent delay lines or would you run them as two separate delays?

Also I have been listening a lot to the 108 Clusterflux and am very tempted by it's sound, would anyone recommend getting one?
Some say they can be noisy and am struggling a little with the noise from 104z but not too much and with several BBD's chained together?!?!, is the noise ratio comparable?

Currently in the set up is Voyager 102 Ring Mod/103 Phaser/104z Delay with the 104m on order.
Would the cluster flux be overkill with this set up? I hope not :wink:

c7sus
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:42 pm

Re: 104z + 104m to achieve stereo delay?

Post by c7sus » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:40 pm

Yes on the 108M. It has a great sound. If you plan to use it with a guitar put a clean boost or slight overdrive in front of it. It seems kinda mushy without it.

Never tried two 104's via the loop. Seems to me you would get all the delay from both units on the wet output only by using the loop. Putting them in series you would get the first delay on the dry side of the second.

I have had better results using the delay as an aux send and return off my mixer than at the end of the chain. It just overpowers everything else when it's in series.
Voyager EB #165, T3 #292, MF-101, 102, 103, 104SD, 2x104MSD, 105M, 107, 108M, MP-201, VX-351, CP-251, Frostwave Fat Controller.

User avatar
facon
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:06 pm

Re: 104z + 104m to achieve stereo delay?

Post by facon » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:47 am

I run my two Mf-104s after a MF-108Ms stereo outs. I usually use the Clusterflux with the modulation all the way off to create a Haas effect. You'll find stereo delays and a chorus used as a widener is really common in the studio for whenever you want things to sound like they extend outside of the speakers.

I also use the two delays after the stereo output on the MF-103 a lot as well. I highly recommend trying it.

If you hook up the MD-104M into the MF-104Z loop, you're simply running two delays in series and only affecting the wet signal of the MF-104Z. You can do this to create interesting rhythmic patterns. It is not stereo.

The MF-108M is noisy when you start to get into the longer more interesting delay ranges. But, it's not even close to as noisy as an MF-101 and it's the trade off you pay for an analog chorus. I do wish they would make a SuperClusterFlux with similar noise and time improvements as the MF-104MSD.

scragg
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:55 pm

Re: 104z + 104m to achieve stereo delay?

Post by scragg » Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:47 pm

Fantastic thanks for your input!
Looks like possibly another mooger fooger order needs to be placed:D, the cluster flux sounds so rich from the demos but have not heard it person.
can I ask is the 500 series Delay and improvement on the pedal versions? and how does an old BBD delay compare i.e Dynacord VRS23?

Alien8
Posts: 503
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:55 am
Location: Canada!!

Re: 104z + 104m to achieve stereo delay?

Post by Alien8 » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:01 pm

The 500 series is supposed to be the lowest noise design, then the 104SD, 104M etc.

As for the noise you may have from a ClusterFlux or 104, I've found some careful low pass filtering can do wonders (in the EQ sense and not a MF-101 filter).

A third -YES- for the ClusterFlux, it is an amazing tone shaper / stereo space creator. Among it's many other talents...
Vibration emanates from all things, even nothing. Using awareness to translate vibration into "music" is something that I am whole heartedly grateful for.

vasago
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:48 am

Re: 104z + 104m to achieve stereo delay?

Post by vasago » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:53 pm

yes buy the clusterflux


here is a demo i did when it first came out. I ran my tr 808 throught it and got really interesting sounds out of it. No fancy midi control though- just a beat through the input and front panel settings.


https://soundcloud.com/phesago/mf108-tr808
Voyager Performer FR Revox2 Taurus3 mf;102,103,104zx2,105m,CP251x1 SEM Xpander 808 606 pro1x2 FR XS, FRorbx3 Modfactor timefactor space mopho PolyE Nord g1 Vermona drm mk3 KP3x2

User avatar
facon
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:06 pm

Re: 104z + 104m to achieve stereo delay?

Post by facon » Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:52 am

The 500 series delay makes sense in a studio setting when you want to easily recall presets and save them like you would for plugins in your DAW. However, many of the same midi cc's are shared and you may be able to use a Moogerfoogers with the same plugin. The 500 series is balanced and line level, but requires a 500 series rack and psu.

In a typical instrument setup, I think the Moogerfoogers are the far better option. You don't need to hook up midi to control the LFO. It has tap tempo (with the midi versions) that is easily accessed. They are portable, requiring an easily transportable power adapter. They also have CV inputs and outputs right on the back. IMO, that is what really makes Moog gear stand out.

scragg
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:55 pm

Re: 104z + 104m to achieve stereo delay?

Post by scragg » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:22 pm

Very valid points regard the 500 regarding PSU! thank you
I have found a 104Z recently so would it make sense to have x2 104z rather than 104z/104m in terms of sound?
Personally the flexibility of modulation with 104M will most likely swing it but didn't want get one if they don't match sonically

User avatar
facon
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:06 pm

Re: 104z + 104m to achieve stereo delay?

Post by facon » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:49 pm

The differences in sound between the models aren't huge. I would judge if your setup works for you based on functionality. Or perhaps delay time? The biggest difference in sound that I find are the differences in oscillation. You may or may not like the variety.

scragg
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:55 pm

Re: 104z + 104m to achieve stereo delay?

Post by scragg » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:56 pm

I just got my 104M as they have just released another batch!

The inside looks completely different to the 104z and cannot see any 3008 chips in the 104M, are they using different chips than the Z?
Also managed to pick up a cluster flux too early model 224, but is pretty noisy, I checked previous posts regarding the output vs drive input but wondered if the later models are quieter?

User avatar
facon
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:06 pm

Re: 104z + 104m to achieve stereo delay?

Post by facon » Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:33 pm

The midi series pedals are all SMD components. I think the chips are on the other side of the PCB. Facing upward.

Post Reply