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MF-104M Preset Switching via Midi Controller Questions

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MF-104M Preset Switching via Midi Controller Questions

Postby johnnyindia » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:46 pm

Hi!

I own an MF-104M and just got an RJM Mastermind GT22, which is opening up the possibility for me to have presets for the delay. Until now, I was using another 2 analog delays for different purposes, though since the Moog is by far my favorite, I would like to just set 3+ presets via the midi controller. I will also be syncing the delay to midi clock. I have a few questions.

#1 Is this possible and are there any general concerns/limitations? I am thinking at least 3 presets; 1) a longer delay set with the mix about equal to the dry signal, for more rhythmic delay (1/4 note or dotted 1/4 note midi clock sync), maybe 4-6 repeats. 2) a delay for lead guitar playing, so a lower mix and perhaps a shorter time (i.e. dotted 1/8th or triplet midi clock sync). 3) Slapback - single repeat, super short slapback delay not sync'd to midi clock....and possibly a few more experimental presets with various levels of modulation (some with tempo sync'd LFO, some without)

#2 When switching presets, will there be any strange artifacts, due to the shifting delay time? I.e. from a long delay, to slap, or from slap to the solo delay? Or will the change be inaudible/seamless?

#3 Will there be any issue sending midi clock to the pedal for the slapback preset, or for the LFO mod presets where the LFO isn't sync'd? Can I set each preset to accept midi clock for both/or the Delay Time and the LFO?

I think that's all the questions for now; will read the manual again later but just want to run this by the forum.
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Re: MF-104M Preset Switching via Midi Controller Questions

Postby stiiiiiiive » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:21 pm

Welcome JohnnyIndia :)

I think that, provided the MIDI controller can send a Midi CC train when pressing a single button, you can achieve what you want.
In the 104M's manual, you'll find a MIDI implementation chart that indicates which parameter reacts to what MIDI CC#. For each preset, program you controller so that it sends the right value to the right parameter et voilà.

About the delay time setting variation, I know there is a parameter that can only be reached through MIDI to set whether the time shall ramp up/down or change immediately. Actually, the ramp time is what you can set, if I remember correctly.

About the MIDI clock sending, maybe someone can help better than I can :)
Last edited by stiiiiiiive on Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MF-104M Preset Switching via Midi Controller Questions

Postby facon » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:33 am

The delay will warp and have a noticeable sound when you change between different delay times. It will be just like quickly changing the delay time knob. In the studio this wouldn't be good, but I don't think it's that big of a deal live. Going to and from slapback probably won't be heard much because it's such a short delay.
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Re: MF-104M Preset Switching via Midi Controller Questions

Postby ianbenn » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:20 pm

I sent this email to RJM and this is the response i received re similar question:

Just to confirm what i wish to achieve;

The PBC would be the hub of my pedal board, storing presets of the Moog in conjunction with other pedals for example
preset 1, compressor and moog, preset 2 fuzz, Moog and reverb etc etc i'm sure you get the idea..
just completely for my peace of mind, i need to be entirely clear the PBC would change the moog from a slap back echo on preset 1, to a longer delay on preset 2 in one button press as well as adding and subtracting the other pedals as required.

Reply from RJM as below:

Yes, the PBC can send any MIDI messages you like, and the MF104M allows you to change all parameters with MIDI messages, so I don't see any problem in controlling it.

The Mastermind PBC has a feature called Macros, which are predefined sequences of MIDI messages. I think this would be very helpful in your case. You can set up a macro for each pseudo-preset then call those macros from each PBC preset. This would allow you to set up a slapback delay macro, long delay macro, etc. then call them from your PBC presets - For example PBC presets 1 5 and 7 could call up the long delay macro and PBC presets 2 and 4 could call up the slapback delay macro. If you decided you wanted to change the long delay "preset" you could edit the macro, instead of having to edit presets 1, 5 and 7.
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Re: MF-104M Preset Switching via Midi Controller Questions

Postby facon » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:42 pm

Just ordered the Mastermind PBC last week. Really excited to get it! Ron will include the Moogerfoogers as devices in the next update to make it easier to program the macros.

Each macro can send out 32 midi actions. Each preset can send 20 actions (including macros). So, it looks like we finally have one single device that can create entire presets for as many Moogerfoogers as you could ever use.

Some ideas: You can setup midi beat clock tempos at the song level on the Mastermind. So, instead of programming delay time for the macros, enable time sync and use the clock divisions (CC 90) for the macros. This way the delay will be on tempo for each individual song. Or it will adjust to tap tempo if you use it.

To keep the delay trails while bypassing, you have a couple options. The first you'll need to use the Mastermind in parallel for the delay. So, you'll want to hook it up to the wet output jack and use the output volume to control the repeat volume. Not the mix knob.

Or, you can run it in series and send a midi CC to bypass the pedal on every preset that it isn't in use. If you have spillover enabled, you'll get trails, but your signal will always be running through the buffer. If you go this route and use a Moogerfooger in series, you get the added benefit of the midi controlled output level (VCA). It can be used as a programmable clean boost or volume attenuator.
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Re: MF-104M Preset Switching via Midi Controller Questions

Postby Gladmarr » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:06 pm

I'm very interested in how this works out. You'll have to keep us updated on your progress with this.
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Re: MF-104M Preset Switching via Midi Controller Questions

Postby ianbenn » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:17 pm

Please post your findings, I'm very interested to see how this all works out.
As an aside to this issue i have also been looking at this little device to create presets for the moog
http://www.faderfox.de/uc4.html

I have been in touch with the supplier and he reckons that he can update the firmware to store the appropriate controller messages.
I am currently using a Boss ES 8 pedal switcher. The great thing with the switcher is the ability to organize pedals in any order bu the midi implementation is very basic. An updated Fader fox UC4 should also allow preset creation for the moog.
will keep you posted on this one.
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Re: MF-104M Preset Switching via Midi Controller Questions

Postby facon » Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:25 am

You can also use the Molten Voltage Osmosis. It can send out 16 CC's at once. It's great for one or two pedals or basic control. The problem is, if you have multiple midi Moogerfoogers (I have 3) and you want the Simi display screen, it adds up. That would be $550 for 3 Osmosis's and a Simi. Add a midi capable pedal switcher like the Boss ES8 or Gigrig G2 and you're in the $1200 to $1750 range. While the RJM is $1000 and appears to have features all around that are better than anything available.

http://www.moltenvoltage.com/products/O ... ltage.html
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Re: MF-104M Preset Switching via Midi Controller Questions

Postby Gav » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:47 pm

stiiiiiiive wrote:Welcome JohnnyIndia :)

About the delay time setting variation, I know there is a parameter that can only be reached through MIDI to se whether the time shall ramp up/down or change immediately. Actually, the ramp time is what you can set, if I remember correctly.



is that the Time Slew Rate?
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Re: MF-104M Preset Switching via Midi Controller Questions

Postby stiiiiiiive » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:22 pm

Most probably.
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