Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

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Jose Aldo Nova
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Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by Jose Aldo Nova » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:57 pm

Greetings, everyone!

Just spoke to a rep at Sweetwater just now, and they do have a very limited supply of MF-104Ms in stock of which they received from Moog.

Get 'em while they're hot for $679.99, free shipping and no tax.

Jose Aldo Nova
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Re: Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by Jose Aldo Nova » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:26 pm

So, did anyone get any?
I feel like I found buried treasure.

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mayidunk
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Re: Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by mayidunk » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:00 pm

I called Sweetwater yesterday and ordered one, it should be here by Tuesday. They said that they had 50+ units left, and are expecting more, so I guess Moog must have either found a treasure trove of NOS BBD chips, or decided to use up whatever remained of their repair stock. Hard to say, but in any event your post is what... "inspired?" me to finally pry the few remaining dollars I have out of my bank account, and get one before they become totally unavailable!

Thanks for posting that as I believe this to be an amazing second chance for those of us who kept hemming and hawing about getting one. Being frugal and practical really is the best way to be in these days of increasingly diminishing dollars. However sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, and do what you know you have to do... provided, of course, that doing so isn't going to hurt you, or your loved ones in some way.

Jose Aldo Nova
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Re: Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by Jose Aldo Nova » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:26 pm

mayidunk wrote:I called Sweetwater yesterday and ordered one, it should be here by Tuesday. They said that they had 50+ units left, and are expecting more, so I guess Moog must have either found a treasure trove of NOS BBD chips, or decided to use up whatever remained of their repair stock. Hard to say, but in any event your post is what... "inspired?" me to finally pry the few remaining dollars I have out of my bank account, and get one before they become totally unavailable!

Thanks for posting that as I believe this to be an amazing second chance for those of us who kept hemming and hawing about getting one. Being frugal and practical really is the best way to be in these days of increasingly diminishing dollars. However sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, and do what you know you have to do... provided, of course, that doing so isn't going to hurt you, or your loved ones in some way.


Excellent! Glad you took the plunge; now is the time.
I bought one as well since I have no idea how long we can get new pedals at this price before they're inflated by resellers. Can't wait to hear the difference between this and the MF-104Z and MSD.

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Gladmarr
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Re: Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by Gladmarr » Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:17 pm

For what it's worth: they're the same price I paid for mine in 2012.
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mayidunk
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Re: Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by mayidunk » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:00 pm

Mine arrived today.

I had always balked at buying one due to the cost; it's a spendy little sucker! However, in doing so I ended up missing out on getting a brand new unit, leaving me to the "tender mercies" of the used market! A few years back I had purchased a used one off of the 'bay that was supposed to have been tested as being perfect, but was obviously defective. After trying, and failing to return it via normal channels for a refund, I ended up having to open a dispute with PayPal. After not receiving a response from the seller, PayPal investigated it, and determined that the seller was a scammer! They got bounced from PayPal, and I got my money back but, alas, my desire for the Delay was... delayed.

I doubt anyone would have ever expected that Moog would do one more production run of these because if Moog knew where to get more BBDs they would have just kept on making them. It may be that Moog might have been aware of a source of additional BBDs last May, but were unable to purchase them, yet still had an outside chance of doing so later on, hence only suspending production of the MF-104M. Perhaps this last batch is the result of that outside chance coming through for them.

Whatever the reason for this last batch, I believe the salient point to all this is that we all get one more chance to purchase a new one before they're gone for good. Unless another cache of NOS BBDs are discovered, or someone decides that it's cost effective for them to manufacture them, this is likely to be the last batch of MF-104M Delays that Moog ever makes! I think we may know that for sure if, after this batch sells out, Moog announces that the MF-104M has finally been discontinued.

Moral of the story? I'm glad that, at the first moment I learned they were available this past Saturday, that I finally had the good sense (and the available funds!) to quit dithering about the price, and to just buy one right there and then! :mrgreen:

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mayidunk
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Re: Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by mayidunk » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:11 pm

Jose Aldo Nova wrote:
mayidunk wrote:I called Sweetwater yesterday and ordered one, it should be here by Tuesday. They said that they had 50+ units left, and are expecting more, so I guess Moog must have either found a treasure trove of NOS BBD chips, or decided to use up whatever remained of their repair stock. Hard to say, but in any event your post is what... "inspired?" me to finally pry the few remaining dollars I have out of my bank account, and get one before they become totally unavailable!

Thanks for posting that as I believe this to be an amazing second chance for those of us who kept hemming and hawing about getting one. Being frugal and practical really is the best way to be in these days of increasingly diminishing dollars. However sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, and do what you know you have to do... provided, of course, that doing so isn't going to hurt you, or your loved ones in some way.


Excellent! Glad you took the plunge; now is the time.
I bought one as well since I have no idea how long we can get new pedals at this price before they're inflated by resellers. Can't wait to hear the difference between this and the MF-104Z and MSD.

Thanks! Perhaps had I not finally pulled the trigger, I might have still been able to get one somewhere. But, then again, perhaps not... Tender mercies, and all that!

Anyway, that's a moot point, and it's now time to play! :twisted:

Croyote
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Re: Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by Croyote » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:22 pm

Not anymore. Sold out til December.

mayidunk wrote:Whatever the reason for this last batch, I believe the salient point to all this is that we all get one more chance to purchase a new one before they're gone for good. Unless another cache of NOS BBDs are discovered, or someone decides that it's cost effective for them to manufacture them, this is likely to be the last batch of MF-104M Delays that Moog ever makes! I think we may know that for sure if, after this batch sells out, Moog announces that the MF-104M has finally been discontinued.


We've been talking about it in the other thread. Howard Davis is developing new Panasonic BBD Clones that are the most precise replicas yet. If Moog decides the implement them we might be able to get delays with even longer time on the dial . . .almost into looping territory which is cool!

Please open that delay up and take a pic of the board if you would. I want to find out if Moog is using NOS chips or Howard Davis' new one.

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mayidunk
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Re: Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by mayidunk » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:26 am

Croyote wrote:...We've been talking about it in the other thread. Howard Davis is developing new Panasonic BBD Clones that are the most precise replicas yet. If Moog decides the implement them we might be able to get delays with even longer time on the dial . . .almost into looping territory which is cool!

Please open that delay up and take a pic of the board if you would. I want to find out if Moog is using NOS chips or Howard Davis' new one.

Wow! A quick comparison of the MN3005 and MN3008 data sheets appears to show that these two BBDs are totally plug compatible! If that's the case, and if the MN3005 clone you mentioned is a "close enough" copy of the Panasonic chip in every way, then we may have a winner! Provided, of course, the noise characteristics of the MN3008 doesn't make the sound of the MF-104M unique in some way that may not be able to be reproduced by the MN3005. One example of that might be in Moog's describing the longer setting of the Range switch as producing a darker tone than the short range setting does. Some may want that dark tone! However, that's not necessarily a show stopper, as they might be able to design a low-pass filter that would mimic the audio roll-off characteristics produced in the wet signal path by the MN2008 when it's switched into the long delay range setting. If that's able to be done convincingly, then at the least it would allow the pedals using the MN3005s to maintain the sound characteristics of those using the MN3008. However, at most it would also provide an opportunity for Moog to upgrade the MF-104M's design to then allow the user to switch that filter in and out regardless of what delay range has been set, thus allowing the clear or dark characteristic of the sound to be available in both range settings! But that's only one way in which replacing the MN3008 with the MN3005 might affect the overall sound characteristics of the pedal.

However, if what I've written above sounds even close to reality, and comprises the totality of the changes that the MN3005 clone would introduce to the existing signal path, then this could be very interesting! It would also be interesting if the MN3005 clones were able to directly replace the MN3008 without the need for a realignment or adjustment of the support circuits. If this is true, then some of us may be able to do a reasonably easy field upgrade of our existing MF-104Ms, possibly giving us something that approaches the MF-104SD as a result! :D

But, then again, I could be completely wrong about all this, so big grains of salt should be taken with what I've just written. Just because it may sound somewhat plausible, doesn't mean it's actually doable. Yet, that being said, the possibilities seem rather promising... at first glance, anyway! Mileages are likely to vary. :mrgreen:

Oh, and, as for your request to take pictures? I'm afraid I'm not equipped to do that right now. Perhaps someone else may be able to do that for you.

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willi
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Re: Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by willi » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:50 am

Long or short time setting affects the tone because of the clock rate and resulting nyquist frequency related roll off.
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mayidunk
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Re: Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by mayidunk » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:23 am

willi wrote:Long or short time setting affects the tone because of the clock rate and resulting nyquist frequency related roll off.

So, does that mean that replacing the MN3008 with the MN3005 will not affect the darker sound characteristic of the long delay range setting?

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Re: Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by Croyote » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:16 am

Really good points guys.

The only thing that I think might present a hurdle is that the MN3005 requires 15v whereas the MN3008 require 12v.

Correct me if I"m wrong about that. Seems like an easy enough issue for Moog to fix . . . as long as they don't go back to the classic "daughterboard" issues that plagued the first generations of delays.

Jose Aldo Nova
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Re: Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by Jose Aldo Nova » Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:53 am

Croyote wrote:Not anymore. Sold out til December.


Huh, that stinks - but still took longer than I thought.

I jumped at the chance and ordered one thinking it might be another website mistake (Sweetwater's site had the MF-104Ms wrongfully denoted as being in stock at least once before) and asked questions later.

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mayidunk
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Re: Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by mayidunk » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:33 pm

Croyote wrote:Really good points guys.

The only thing that I think might present a hurdle is that the MN3005 requires 15v whereas the MN3008 require 12v.

Correct me if I"m wrong about that. Seems like an easy enough issue for Moog to fix . . . as long as they don't go back to the classic "daughterboard" issues that plagued the first generations of delays.

According to the data sheets I have, they both appear to require the same Drain Supply Voltage (VDD = -14V to -16V), and Gate Supply Voltage (VGG = VDD + 1).

coultrain
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Re: Confirmed - Sweetwater DOES have MF-104Ms for Sale

Post by coultrain » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:55 pm

Guess what............................................................................................................................


SW got more MF104M today. I bought 2!!!!!!!

THANKS MOOG THANKS SWEETWATER!!!

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