S&H to 103 Sweep In. Help needed. Got 101, 104 and CP251

[MBlom]

Well, since I'm often too eager getting new gear instead of getting the most outof what I've already got (guess I'm all alone there right? ) I thought I'd try to see what kind of "vowely" sounds I could get out of the phaser instead of buying a Murf. So.

I have the 101, 103, 104 and 241, and tried taking Env Out from 101 to Trig on the 251. Then Out 1 to Sweep In on 103. But nothing. Used the attenuators between Out 1 and Sweep In as well as between Env Out and Trig. Still no changing frequencies at the 103. If I take the 251 LFO out straight to Sweep In it reacts. I just can't get the S&H thing to work.

What am I missing?

[radioland]

I haven`t checked the manuals, but the first thing that comes into my mind is whether the generated Env is high enough to trigger the S&H. Maybe routing the Env Out through the mixer and adding some offset voltage will solve the problem. Or maybe you just need to push the 101 a bit to generate an usable Env. The attenuators will only attenuate or invert your Env out, but not add to the voltage.

If you want to explore some "vowely" sounds with your gear you could use the Env out into the 103 resonance in, or the S&H-ed 101 Env out into the lfo speed in, or lag the 101 Env out into the Sweep In.

I hope that helps. Enjoy the tweaking and don`t forget to post successful results .

Cheers, radioland

[MBlom]

Ok. Tried my Kenton Pro Solo midi-to-cv but nothing. Got to test so I really get a gate signal out though.

Aaaargh! Why doesn't stuff work right away when you've got the inspiration?


(Because you're a lazy SOB that haven't taken the time to learn your gear)

[latigid on]

Recall that there are two inputs for 'Sweep' and one of them must be used in 12-stage mode, controlling the second six stages via the aux out. The other sets the centre point offset for the internal LFO. Hope that helps!

[MBlom]

Thanks for the tip. Sweep In works with the LFO but not with S&H. Grrrrrr. I soooo want this to work!

[latigid on]

Like my fellow Schweizer says, you may need a sharper trigger for the S&H. A good trick to double a voltage is to run the env into the multiple, then patch two outputs into the mixer. Output of that to the sweep in. Hope it works!

[MBlom]

But a gate out from a midi-to-cv should do it, no? But it didn't. Is the gate signal to short? A gate signal to Trig on the CP-251 and Out 1 to Sweep In on 103 should be right. Can't get my head around this one. Annoying!

[stiiiiiiive]

Well, since I'm often too eager getting new gear instead of getting the most outof what I've already got (guess I'm all alone there right? )

You're not alone mate

Aaaargh! Why doesn't stuff work right away when you've got the inspiration?

(Because you're a lazy SOB that haven't taken the time to learn your gear)

You are actually learning it right now


Just to be sure, you'd like to be able to change the S&H output level with an external trigger, right? And you don't want to get a 10€ switch pedal but have you're bass trigging the S&H jump, right?

Dumb suggestion maybe: try if the S&H works correctly alone, then with an external LFO trigger like the Voyager's.

[MBlom]

Just to be sure, you'd like to be able to change the S&H output level with an external trigger, right? And you don't want to get a 10€ switch pedal but have you're bass trigging the S&H jump, right?

Exactly! I want the Frequency for the filter dips/tops to be different on each note played.

Dumb suggestion maybe: try if the S&H works correctly alone, then with an external LFO trigger like the Voyager's.

Ok. But doesn't the S&H Out 1 value constantly change when nothing is put in Trig? Gotta get home and experiment!

[stiiiiiiive]

IIRC, the S&H works by default with the internal noise generator and the internal square LFO. You can see the graphics on the panel BTW.
As soon as you plug something in the IN input, the signal replaces the noise.
As soon as you plug something in the TRIG input, the signal replaces the square LFO.

So if you're sure the default configuration is ok, then try with you envelope or another noise source sent to IN. This way, you'll see if that jack works correctly.
Then, unplug that and try your Voyager's LFO in the TRIG inut to see if that jack is ok.

If everuthing is running as expected, then I guess the 101's envelope is not stiff enough (or high enough) to trig the S&H module, as suggested earlier.

[MBlom]

Thanks. I'll get to the bottom of it tomorrow!

[MBlom]

It works. But neither from only the CP251 nor with Voyager Gate in does the effect on the Sweep frequency get that big. If I turn the knob for each note I play (poor mans S&H) the effect is very much in your face. But from the 251 just noticable. Even when adding and tweaking the attenuators. Hmmm.

[JnGd]

Hi,
quoting Moogmusic CP-251 instruction book, page 27:
" triggering occurs when the voltage at the TRIG jack descends through the +1 volt nominal trigger threshold ".

Both triangle and square LFO waves are provided on the CP-251.
They are sharp pulsating signals wich are going up and down through that +1 volt triggering threshold .
The ENV OUT voltage signal from the MF-101 is not the same type of signal. It is representing the "contour" of your bass line when you perform.
The bass wave contour voltage goes up when you start performing, stays probably higher than that +1 volt for a while, then, when going down
the end of the wave, it passes back that +1 voltage trigerring threshold again...maybe it is why the effect is not so much noticed when trying to trigger the S&H with that ENV OUT voltage.

Hoping it helps you, others and me too !

[stiiiiiiive]

Well done, thanks for pointing this out

Thus inverting the envelope signal before it reaches the phaser input may be the key here.

Hey, Mblom, check that, just in case.

[MBlom]

Hmm gotta read that a couple of times to understand. And I use the gate signal from the Voyager (via a midi-to-cv). Just so you now. I started with the 101 Env Out.