Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

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MBlom
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Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

Post by MBlom » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:49 am

Silly question maybe, but I'm about to get me a Voyager and I think it would be dumb not to have some kind of reverb or delay to go with it. I have the lowpass, phaser and freqbox, but I just don't know whether to buy the MF104 or using a cheaper delay or reverb pedal. I love the sound of my foogers and to patch them together in different ways, but I can't really imagine what to do with an MF104 besides having it "just set on delay". Please enlighten me in the wonders of the MF104!
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Re: Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

Post by stiiiiiiive » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:05 am

Just this morning I had my Voyager filter envelope controlling the time of the delay. Daniel Fisher aka _DemonMan_ showed this on the MF-104M presetntation video with a CV out equiped Little Phatty.

What I'm not saying is that I did that with a EHX pedal ;)

Honestly, the 104 is great sounding and havng some delay or reverb (it sort does that too) with the Voyager place it in a space. I personally love that, however I wouldn't call "dumb" anyone does not ;) The 104 is quite an expensive unit, and you are on your way for a Voyager. What I'd advise you is to get the Voyager as soon as possible and use some cheaper unit first. You can get a 104 afterwards if you still want one.
As examples, I sometimes use an EHX DMM with tap tempo, an RE-20 or an EHX Cathedral. But any good stompbox will do as well. I'm currently testing a Carl Martin Headroom: a sligh spring reverb adds the bit of wetness I like. Sometimes I even think about getting a cheap, simple, classic, good ol' HolyGrail :)

Sir Nose
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Re: Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

Post by Sir Nose » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:25 pm

I had one for a short bit. I found one for a steal on craigslist and jumped on it. I knew before I bought it I could not keep it even at the "steal" price. But I figured I get to experience it before a flipped it on (to Dan BTW).

You can insert other effects in the feedback loop. The delays have a particular low pass sound (pretty dark), some love it. Slides pitch real nice when time is adjusted or modulated. Very nice sound when overdriven even when not using the delay, adds something special when that red light is on.

EricK
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Re: Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

Post by EricK » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:59 pm

I love my 104z it is a great unit. It had some issues every now and then where it was nonfunctional, but hopefully they won't continue to crop up.

It sounds great on just about whatever you use it on. It is a desert island pedal for sure. It will make your voyager instantly lush and it seems it will be a permanent part of your audio chain. With other synth gear you can do a lot with it that you can do with the 104m, it's just not all self-contained. The M has a wider freq range though, but for synths and many other instruments that are within the Z's range it really does some great things.

I recommend one....or a few really, it's just a shame they are so damn expensive. That's a lot of cheese to spread on a single effect.

Eric
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Re: Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

Post by Croyote » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:42 am

It's amazing. I dropped a hunk of bread on one recently after searching for a good deal. The killer deals are out there if you know where to look.

It kills my Supa-Puss, and I feel it also kills the sound of the 104z and 104sd I used to own, in terms of tone, usefulness and options.

Everything from Barber-Pole Flanging, to tape-warble chorus to bright crisp repeats to deep dark delay to insane modulation madness echoing infinitely ever onward is at your fingertips.

c0nsilience
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Re: Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

Post by c0nsilience » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:08 pm

It uses BB chips, which are not found anymore. It kills almost every other delay....except my Chandler and original Space Echo, but it slays the EH stuff. The folks at Moog know exactly what they are doing.....way beyond the technical chops of most pedal/effect builders. Moog is the standard. If you can find one at a fair price, get it. You won't be disappointed and can find a cheaper digital delay for the longer swells.

Cheers!

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Re: Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

Post by Alien8 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:43 am

You can create atmospheric washes, builds, noise creation, modify tones, create echo's, pitch shift individual notes, slur echos, create beats, put anything into the fx loop, create chorus effects... There isn't one other pedal that can do everything it can, but there are many pedals that can do some of what it can. The 104 has the most CV control access. It does not do stereo, or have a dedicated tone adjustment, but you can add your own (The M does have a bright / dark under the hood setting).

I tend to start using wine metaphors when talking about the 104. Think of your ideal meal, steak, duck, tofu etc, and now think of a complimenting drink (ie beer, wine, fruit flavoured water) that would go with that meal. Good, refreshing meals always have the right drink that compliments the food, and settles / excites the digestive tract, palate & mind with satisfaction.

The Moog delay does this to the things I run through it - it settles / excites my ear, musical intuition. Why drink a beer, when you can afford a refines wine that takes you to different experiences. You know where the beer will take you, but the wine can open your mind a little. Other delays are fun, as is beer, and it gets the job done, but not like a good *insert preferred* drink does.

Other delays have similar functionality, some are much more extreme. The timeline & timefactor for example has just about everything you would want to put into the fx loop of a delay already built in, however it just misses the mark of the Moog sound. The EHX stuff does lots too, has its own get the job done tone, and even has its own voice that can be pleasing, but its not quite the Moog.

When you play the Moog delay, that swirl thing starts to happen that Bob did between the Voyager and your head. Other delays do it to, but you never seem to get bored of the swirl that the Moog creates. It's alive, reliable, and always inspiring. When its not, that's what the other delays are for :)

In summary, any Moog delay compliments the synth sound, among many other instruments. It has this ability to exploit the pleasing frequencies in a musical & tonally satisfying way that no other does. But that's just my personal taste.
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Re: Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

Post by stiiiiiiive » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:47 pm

That.

Every and each point of tthat.

The wine(I'm French... ;) )

The EHX stuff that is good too.

The magic.

I could not have been as poet as Alien8!

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MBlom
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Re: Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

Post by MBlom » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:58 pm

Nice to hear your praises. I'm about to order the Voyager any day now and might put an MF-104M in there as well. But I'm not sure yet and it would really help if you could just give me examples of how you set the knobs and what that does. For example, I can't really imagine what different LFO-settings result in sonically. And please give me some ideas of how to use it with my other foogers.

A few specific questions:
How do (or can) I make it so it sounds like a tape delay with a slightly irregular tape speed? My guess is that it could be done by setting the LFO to sine, fairly quick rate and low amount.

Can it do more springey-like delays?


Hmm. Now that I start to think about hooking it up with the other foogers, wouldn't it be possible to put the Lowpass Filter in the fx loop and feeding its Env Out to S&H on the CP-251 and back to Cutoff Freq and thereby getting randomised clearness or eq-emphasis, depending on how high Res is set?
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Minimoog Voyager EB & Minitaur + MF-101 + MF-103 + MF-104M + MF-107 + CP-251 + Minifooger Drive. MachineDrum UW + MonoMachine + Rickenbackerbass (-75) + Hagströmguitar (-75).

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Re: Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

Post by stiiiiiiive » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:00 am

MBlom wrote:Nice to hear your praises. I'm about to order the Voyager any day now and might put an MF-104M in there as well. But I'm not sure yet and it would really help if you could just give me examples of how you set the knobs and what that does. For example, I can't really imagine what different LFO-settings result in sonically. And please give me some ideas of how to use it with my other foogers.
Check out the _DemonMan_ video on SweetWater product page. He gives a wide, musical overview of what the delay can do.
MBlom wrote:How do (or can) I make it so it sounds like a tape delay with a slightly irregular tape speed? My guess is that it could be done by setting the LFO to sine, fairly quick rate and low amount.
I guess the smoothed S1H modulation is the one to use here. It is available under the hood, through MIDI.
MBlom wrote:Can it do more springey-like delays?
Of course, very short time settings will do it.

MBlom wrote:Hmm. Now that I start to think about hooking it up with the other foogers, wouldn't it be possible to put the Lowpass Filter in the fx loop and feeding its Env Out to S&H on the CP-251 and back to Cutoff Freq and thereby getting randomised clearness or eq-emphasis, depending on how high Res is set?
OK So.
LowPassFilter in the loop, ok. Afterwards, I'm not following you 100% :lol: but yes, you can do whatever you want. What results you get is another story, haha!

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Re: Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

Post by Gladmarr » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:55 am

MBlom wrote:How do (or can) I make it so it sounds like a tape delay with a slightly irregular tape speed? My guess is that it could be done by setting the LFO to sine, fairly quick rate and low amount.
I've been using mine for just that lately. Whatever delay time you like, just set the LFO to S&H (I just use the regular - the smoothed is too subtle), speed very high, amount pretty little; and I get an awesome tape warble sounding delay. It sounds cool on guitar doing atmospheric things, so I think it would sound cool on a voyager as well. There are a ton of features that can only be accessed via midi - like a built in LPF on the delay, time multipliers, and the smoothed S&H waveform. It's an expensive delay, but if it isn't going to leave you without grocery money, I'd say it's a great sonic investment.
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This is a very un-Moogy example.

Post by Croyote » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:23 am

I have enjoyed the MF-104M on all kinds of settings for chorus .. . fast delay rate and slow subtle LFO's with low amounts, high amounts, or fast LFO rates.

I've started recording my versions of demos of Jazz standards and they will often use a Moog chorus tone on one or more guitars.

https://soundcloud.com/crowyote/if-yous ... tuff-smith

My first project in the series features a stereo split nylon string lead guitar signal. Nylon string -> EHX LPB2ube -> rt out with higher tube gain -> left out to MF104 M set on fastest delay rate with Sample and Hold waveform set to the fastest possible LFO rate using an EP-2 and very low LFO amount dialed in. Very subtle, but lush.

There is also a rhythm pattern loop.

Keep in mind it's a demo, for forming into more finished ideas not an attempt at perfection.

vasago
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Re: Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

Post by vasago » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:21 am

I would personally get a z before an M, but who really cares? The point being is that you should get one. I would actually get a moog delay before the voyager, as its INF more usable *waits for the riot to start*
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Re: Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

Post by Croyote » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:15 pm

vasago wrote:I would personally get a z before an M, but who really cares?

I care . . . I don't see why one would. I've owned the SD, the Z, the M, and various other analog delays. The M beats em all.

The cool things about the Z are the full second of delays, bright tone, and easy oscillation.

However, it's just not as useful in my eyes. The M is much more flexible has built in modulation, tap tempo, and an effects loop which is actually functional. The only thing it seems to lack is stereo output for ping-pong effects. Oh well, there's other way to get that sound.

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Re: Why buy the MF-104? What can I do with it?

Post by stiiiiiiive » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:30 am

Yes, I sometimes use an EHX Stereo Pulsar afterwards the 104 to widen the image. Not ping-pong delay but it does the job.

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