MF-104Z vs MF-104M

[Alien8]

I stand corrected. Apparently it is about having an ego. Where's the *facepalm* emoticon when you need it.

[EMwhite]

I actually like the sound of the 104Z better than the 104M that I have. Maybe it's because I don't own one of those also (??) but I can tell you that the Catalinbread Echorec pedal (which is modeled after the legendary drum unit) has that 'melt away' quality to it that doesn't NEED to sound 'better'. All a matter of personal taste I suppose.

What I like about the 104M, however, is Mid sync and the way that you do tricky things with the LFO like time modulate between two settings which cause the audio in the effects loop to cycle an octave (or some other interval) apart.

But watch this chap's brief shootout; yeah, it's a guitar but worth a watch and listen. And be sure to play it twice because it's a bit difficult to tune your eyes out and just listen closely and at the same time read and consider the comments. At least, I have a problem doing that (I'm old). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igt2J42EvPs

[peterk]

I can tell more noise from less noise.
I can tell more high end from less high end.
I can tell an infinite loop that degrades into clacking from an infinite loop that keeps sounding like the source.
I can tell when the first repeat has the effect I placed in the Ext. Send/Return.
With time and experience, you'll learn that these differences are not "bonkers".

P.S. Do you really laugh out loud at your own typing?[/quote]

Did you use the 104z or the 104m for this delayed response.

[EricK]

I think the Z is a beautiful sounding delay. I haven't tried the M. One of Kehew's points about it in his clinics was that it didn't replicate the input signal exactly but that it would degrade like a naturally occurring echo would. The Z degrades to a click and this is suitable for my uses.

My only complaint echoes that of Bryan T, that it does/did have many instances where it failed to function for whatever reason(s).

[redeyeflight]

Well I'm about to answer my own question...I have a 104M in route! I couldnt bare to be rid of my 104Z as of yet so I should be able to do some extensive A/B-ing soon...impressions to follow shortly.

[redeyeflight]

Well my initial reaction after spending a cpl hrs with the 104M pretty much echoes (no pun intended) most people here: it's definately has less of a "clicky" feedback character, more smooth. The fidelity on the short delay setting definately seems a bit crisper. The modulation is fantastic. Just a tiny bit of the random/sample and hold wave shape adds such a great tape echo unpredictable warble to the sound...love it! The 104M seems to "latch on" to quieter playing better than the 104Z. I find at least with my 104Z that if your playing is quiet the signal doesn't echo much whereas the 104M seems to track dynamic a lot better which in my book is a big plus! The dynamic headroom on both units seem about the same otherwise. The 104Z definately has more delay time than the 104M (unless you use tap tempo)...probably has something to do with the increased fidelity? I find the 104M to be a tad touchier on the feedback as well. My 104Z I really have to crank the feedback to get it to self oscillate...oscillation definately comes on a bit sooner on the 104M...again, a plus in my book. I've found the repeats on the 104M to get appreciably grungy, at least for my use. I noticed some folks saying the 104Z is grungier but I haven't really noticed any huge difference at least with my initial tests. I'm going to use the 104M in place of my 104Z at a gig tomorrow...will report back then!

[vasago]

theyre both great delays, but I think with different uses. The m is more about modulations and midi implementation. I found it difficult to use in some tempos, and was abit more difficult to find a sweet spot. However, if youre not trying to do boring run of the mill delay usage, I found it could do some great mangling.

I prefer the Z, but that is becuase of how I approach my music, and my workflow. That isn tto discount it though, because the M is still awesome.

[redeyeflight]

Well nothing major to report after using the MF-104M in a live setting for the first time other than it worked perfectly. Definately easier to use than the 104Z at a gig due to the tap tempo feature and the fact that, as I previously posted, the echos seem to "latch on" a bit better to softer playing dynamics than the 104Z. I also love having the spillover feature on available via footswitch. I mostly left the pedal in true bypass mode but for a dub reggae song the band did I put it into spillover for the echo trails...very versatile in that regard and easy to do! Plus I bent over and did some modulation tricks with the LFO section at the end of the tune eliciting strange looks from the other bandmembers...lol. You can't do that with your grandmothers 104Z!! Call me a convert!

[bfrombmore]

Adding my 2 cents...
I have both the 104m and the 104z and I prefer the 104z. The repeats are slightly darker (less high end) and thus it doesn't compete with your original signal in the mix. The Z does have slightly more noise to it but its hardly noticeable unless you've got the drive cranked and your amp volume is up. I put both pedals signals on an oscilloscope and noticed that the phase oscillates with the 104z whereas with the 104m the phase is always positive. I find that I don't use the tap tempo option to often and the modulation of the repeats on the 104m is nice when subtle but can get unruly at higher amounts. Both are great effect pedals and I will likely keep them both, but the 104Z is my favorite of the two.
Cheers

[Kirneh Ness]

Adding my 2 cents...
I have both the 104m and the 104z and I prefer the 104z. The repeats are slightly darker (less high end) and thus it doesn't compete with your original signal in the mix.

The 104m has the insert effect for affecting the delay signal only (as the z's loop in and out). So, with some equalization on the repeats would it not be possible to mimic the 104z sound?

[stiiiiiiive]

It's not only a eq issue. The dynamics are different, all in all they are two different pedals, really.

Another thing: the external feedbback loop of the 104Z applies to the second repetition only. I mean: the first echo is not affected. That was a disappointment for me. The 104M does not suffer that.